White Evangelicals Think They’re Discriminated Against More Than Blacks, Jews, and Muslims

Michael Luciano on September 23, 2014

FILED TO: Religion

The Pew Forum has released a doozy of a poll about religion in public life in the United States showing that white evangelical Christians possess grossly overdeveloped feelings of victimhood. Given that the voting bloc evangelicals comprise is one of the most heavily pandered to in American politics, and given the fact that evangelicals themselves are the cause of some very real discrimination, there is thus a mountainous irony at play here.

In a survey of 2,002 Americans, Pew found that 72% believe that religious influence is waning in the country, and sadly, 56% regard this as a “negative development.” A disturbing 59% of Americans say they want members of Congress to “have strong religious beliefs.” When it comes to discrimination, believe it or not, more Americans think that evangelicals are discriminated against than atheists. Here’s the breakdown of the religious/irreligious groups Pew asked about:

Perceptions of Discrimination in U.S.

% saying there is a lot of discrimination against…

Muslims 59%

Jews 32%

Evangelical Christians 31%

Atheists 27%

Catholics 19%

Like the members of the other four groups listed here, evangelicals are probably more likely to perceive discrimination against themselves than they are when it comes to outside groups. However, this next breakdown shows the staggering degree to which evangelical Christians — and let’s emphasize that since that is after all the majority religious group in the country — think they are victims of discrimination:

Notice that of white evangelicals, white mainline Protestants, black Protestants, white Catholics, Hispanic Catholics, and those who are unaffiliated with any religion, it’s white evangelicals who are much more likely to think “there is a lot of discrimination” against them, with 50% believing their demographic is discriminated against “a lot.”

Amazingly, white evangelicals believe there is more discrimination against them than there is against Muslims, blacks, Hispanics, Jews, and atheists.

Tone. Deaf.

However, this will not come as a surprise to anyone who’s been paying attention to the grumblings from evangelical circles about their phantasmagoric plight in an increasingly secular society. This narrative, which has been spoon-fed to them for decades by self-serving preachers, politicians, and pundits, enables white evangelicals to interpret measures designed to stop discrimination against others as actually being discriminatory against the evangelical way of life. For example, it was just last week when televangelist Pat Robertson went on a nonsensical rant explaining why the U.S. Air Force’s decision to let an atheist reenlistee omit the words “So help me god” from his oath, was yet another instance of the armed forces being “terrorized” by secularists.

Absurd as that was, the diatribe was entirely representative of the reality, as indicated not only by the aforementioned Pew poll, but another Pew poll conducted earlier this year. That survey shows that despite the evangelical cries of, “Help, help, I’m being repressed!” it’s actually nonbelievers who are held in much lower regard by their fellow Americans:

Only 21% of Americans say they’d be less likely to vote for an evangelical for president. Yet, a straight majority (53%) say the same about an atheist candidate. It should also be noted that Pew found that 53% of Americans say belief in god is necessary to be a moral person. That means a majority of Americans view atheists as either immoral or amoral people. No wonder the same percentage thinks atheists are unfit for the presidency, and no wonder there is not a single openly atheist member of the U.S. Congress, despite the fact that some 24 of them have privately said they don’t believe in god.

This is the white evangelical persecution complex quantified. Despite all the religiosity that’s so readily apparent in public life — “In God we trust” on the money, the National Prayer Breakfast, “God Bless America” signing off every major presidential speech, the continued use of “So help me God” at the end of the presidential oath of office despite nothing of the sort appearing in the oath in the Constitution, the existence of a congressional chaplain, the Ten Commandments still cropping up on public property across the country, the political death sentence that would be incurred by most politicians who publicly declare their atheism, the presence of nativity scenes on public property during Christmastime, the nauseating political pandering to ignorant creationists, the treatment of gay people as second class citizens because the Bible says so — it is the white evangelical Christians who think they suffer above all others.

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They are correct. People seen as Christians are discriminated against. That is a fact. In the USA you are not even allowed to peacefully talk to a Muslim because there is sharia law going on in states like Minnesota, Florida, and Michigan.
Tryagain1

Based on all of your comments they are right to believe that. This article is discriminating/targeting them. Apparently they are aware of your hatred. It makes sense.
David Ashton

Two things: first, that photo is not from an evangelical church. Second, I don’t want to force my beliefs on anybody, though I will defend the freedom to express them. I will say that some atheists are trying to prevent expression of those beliefs, but I do think that U.S. christians do get a bit precious about the opposition they encounter.
Ass Hole

FUCK THE DAILY BANTER!
Ass Hole

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Ass Hole

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Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda.
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda.
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda………..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda………
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda.
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…………..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda………….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…………
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda………..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda………
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda……
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda….
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda…
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda..
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda.
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda
Barry S.

This article is discriminating white evangelicals and is promoting a racist agenda.
Gallinipper87

Have Christians forgot why so many Europeans left Europe and founded America? You learn that before you leave elementary school. FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. Let’s not take a huge step backwards. Christians are getting discriminated against because Karma is a B. They use God and the Bible to discriminate on a hourly basis. Most of them try to masquerade their hate speech as love and concern for “sinners”. Just because the government doesn’t see things their way means they are being discriminated against. It means that the American government hasn’t forgotten how even more corrupt the government becomes when Religion plays a big role. Christians might not feel as much discrimination if they stop trying to shove their beliefs down America’s throat. What goes around comes around.
doGfOodliD

At this point in human history the Abrahamic superstitions are a
curse on humanity, the arc of human progress leads directly away
from this primitive nonsense and has for hundreds of years.

Indoctrinating children in supernaturalism before they are old
enough to understand the concept of fiction is nothing less than
ritualistic child abuse. It is by this process of indoctrination
that this communicable mental illness is spread.

It gives us a world filled with permanent two year olds scared of
the dark and the bogeyman who have a built-in pushbutton connected
directly to their fear response, a handy thing for social control.

It is the world’s oldest confidence scheme:

“Psst! Hey Rube, this is your lucky day! I have an inside line with
an invisible being with super powers! Do as I say or my invisible
friend will smite you! Now give me your lunch money and thank me for
taking it.”
- Save Me
  
  It is wrong to make war against ISIL, Boko Haram, or Al Qaeda to defend any nation that allows American Democrats and American Democrat types to vote. That being said, it is good the USA is spending trillions and trillions and trillions of USD to fight losing wars against Islam. As the US spends these funds they bleed and weaken themselves. Also, during the
  globally publicized US war against Islam, American incompetence, weakness, ignorance are demonstrated to the world. It is good the USA loses prestige eveywhere in the world.
http://www.thebible.com Jesus

I tell you truth when I say all of you are wrong. The truth is in the words written of the bible but you have no faith. Blinded by sin therefore you cannot see.

أقول لكم الحقيقة عندما أقول لكم جميعا مخطئون . والحقيقة هي في الكلمات المكتوبة من الكتاب المقدس ولكن لم يكن لديك الإيمان. أعماه الخطيئة وبالتالي لا يمكنك أن ترى .
Poop Head

Fuck you
Poop Head

This article sucks and you’re an idiot!
MechaVelma

Reich-wing christians can not tell the difference between discrimination and disrespect.

Christianity has no value as a philosophy. Part of a valid appraisal is questioning something honestly. Evangelicals ignore the questions and the Christians that do question it stop practicing it. They don’t necessarily become agnostics, deists or atheists.. but they tend to stop going to church and they stop throwing their money at the nonsense.

You can not respect something that claims to have value but in reality, has none.
- Hank
  
  Reich-wing?? Telling.
  
  Christianity, religion and belief in God have immense value to a lot of people. Real or not, the effects are genuine and life altering for many.
- LatK
  
  To lump all Christians into the same pot is simply another way of saying that you to are foolish.
Poop Head

The fact that you’re deleting comments shows that you’re promoting a racist agenda when it goes against your message. This post clearly is discriminating against white evangelicals!!!!!!
- LatK
  
  I guess you think your comments show us what a God-fearing great evangelical Christian that you are. I have heard better jokes than that on the Jimmy Fallon Show..
Poop Head

The author deleted my post and his name is an alias. You’re a fucking idiot! By writing this post you’re discriminating against white evangelicals you racist swine!
- LatK
  
  Oh my. And you’re an example of a white evangelical Christian. No wonder nobody likes that group, and, it has nothing to do with racism. I’ll give you a little hint – unadulterated stupidity has more to do with it..
Poop Head

You fucking idiot. By writing this article, you are discriminating white evangelicals! You racist swine!
JR

This portion of a sentence “the nauseating political pandering to ignorant creationists” is itself discriminatory because you called them “ignorant”. Whay to prove their point!
Zeno

As a white evangelical myself, I for one do not lament this sea change in the culture because I think a marginalized church will be far more effective than an institutionalized one at communicating the gospel to those who need to hear it.
Shane

Shouldn’t they focus on their faith, forgive those who discriminate and not worry what people think? Wasting time..
Occupy Christianity

The other statistic that jumped out at me in this, but wasn’t really covered, was that White Evangelicals see white people as being just as discriminated against as blacks and Hispanics…that is absolutely stunning… Talk about a persecution complex!
- Bod Nobody
  
  With the name of God
  
  Indeed, the truth deny they who say, “Behold, God is the Christ, son of Mary.” Say: “And who could have prevailed with God in any way had it been His will to destroy the Christ, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone who is on earth – all of them? For, God’s is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them; He creates what He wills: and God has the power to will anything!”
  
  And [both] the Jews and the Christians say, “We are God’s children, and His beloved ones.” Say: “Why, then, does He cause you to suffer for your sins? Nay, you are but human beings of His creating. He forgives whom He wills, and He causest to suffer whom He wills: for God’s is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, and with Him is all journeys’ end.”
  
  O followers of the Bible! Now, after a long time during which no apostles have appeared, there has come unto you [this] Our Apostle to make [the truth] clear to you, lest you say, “No bearer of glad tidings has come unto us, nor any warner”: for now there has come unto you a bearer of glad tidings and a warner – since God has the power to will anything.
  
  Quran, 5/ 17 to 19
  
  Indeed, the truth deny they who say, “Behold, God is the Christ, son of Mary” – seeing that the Christ [himself] said, “O children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.” Behold, whoever ascribes divinity to any being beside God, unto him will God deny paradise, and his goal shall be the fire; and such evildoers will have none to succour them!
  
  Indeed, the truth deny they who say, “Behold, God is the third of a trinity” – seeing that there is no deity whatever save the One God. And unless they desist from this their assertion, grievous suffering is bound to befall such of them as are bent on denying the truth.
  
  Will they not, then, turn towards God in repentance, and ask His forgiveness? For God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.
  
  The Christ, son of Mary, was but an apostle: all [other] apostles had passed away before him; and his mother was one who never deviated from the truth; and they both ate food [like other mortals]. Behold how clear We make these messages unto them: and then behold how perverted are their minds!
  
  Say: “Would you worship, beside God, aught that has no power either to harm or to benefit you – when God alone is all-hearing, all-knowing?”
  
  Say: “O followers of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs; and do not follow the errant views of people who have gone astray aforetime, and have led many [others] astray, and are still straying from the right path.”
  
  Quran, 5/ 72 to 77
  
  Thou wilt surely find that, of all people, the most hostile to those who believe [in this divine writ] are the Jews as well as those who are bent on ascribing divinity to aught beside God; and thou wilt surely find that, of all people, they who say, “Behold, we are Christians,” come closest to feeling affection for those who believe [in this divine writ]: this is so because there are priests and monks among them, and because these are not given to arrogance.
  
  For, when they come to understand what has been bestowed from on high upon this Apostle, thou canst see their eyes overflow with tears, because they recognize something of its truth; [and] they say: “O our Sustainer! We do believe; make us one, then, with all who bear witness to the truth.
  
  Quran, 5/ 82 and 83
  
  AND THE JEWS say, “Ezra is God’s son,” while the Christians say, “The Christ is God’s son.” Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [They deserve the imprecation:] “May God destroy them!” How perverted are their minds!
  
  They have taken their rabbis and their monks – as well as the Christ, son of Mary – for their lords beside God, although they had been bidden to worship none but the One God, save whom there is no deity: the One who is utterly remote, in His limitless glory, from anything to which they may ascribe a share in His divinity!
  
  Quran, 9/ 30 and 31
  
  Lo! The angels said: “O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tiding, through a word from Him, [of a son] who shall become known as the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and in the life to come, and [shall be] of those who are drawn near unto God.
  
  And he shall speak unto men in his cradle, and as a grown man, and shall be of the righteous.”
  
  Said she: “O my Sustainer! How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me?” [The angel] answered: “Thus it is: God creates what He wills: when He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it, ‘Be’- and it is.
  
  And he will impart unto thy son revelation, and wisdom, and the Torah, and the Gospel,
  
  and [will make him] an apostle unto the children of Israel.” “I HAVE COME unto you with a message from your Sustainer. I shall create for you out of clay, as it were, the shape of [your] destiny, and then breathe into it, so that it might become [your] destiny by God’s leave: and I shall heal the blind and the leper, and bring the dead back to life by God’s leave: and I shall let you know what you may eat and what you should store up in your houses. Behold, in all this there is indeed a message for you, if you are [truly] believers.
  
  “And [I have come] to confirm the truth of whatever there still remains of the Torah, and to make lawful unto you some of the things which [aforetime] were forbidden to you. And I have come unto you with a message from your Sustainer; remain, then, conscious of God, and pay heed unto me.
  
  “Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer: so worship Him [alone]: this is a straight way.
  
  And when Jesus became aware of their refusal to acknowledge the truth, he asked: “Who will be my helpers in God’s cause?” The white-garbed ones replied: “We shall be [thy] helpers [in the cause] of God! We believe in God: and bear thou witness that we have surrendered ourselve unto Him!
  
  0 our Sustainer! We believe in what Thou hast bestowed from on high, and we follow this Apostle; make us one, then, with all who bear witness [to the truth]!”
  
  And the unbelievers schemed [against Jesus]; but God brought their scheming to nought: for God is above all schemers.
  
  Lo! God said: “O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.
  
  Quran, 3/ 45 to 55
  
  O FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God’s Apostle – [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary – and a soul created by Him. Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, “[God is] a trinity”. Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God.
  
  Never did the Christ feel too proud to be God’s servant, nor do the angels who are near unto Him. And those who feel too proud to serve Him and glory in their arrogance [should know that on Judgment Day] He will gather them all unto Himself:
  
  whereupon unto those who attained to faith and did good deeds He will grant their just rewards, and give them yet more out of His bounty; whereas those who felt too proud and gloried in their arrogance He will chastise with grievous suffering: and they shall find none to protect them from God, and none to bring them succour.
  
  Quran, 4/ 171 to 173
  
  Lo! God will say: “O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember the blessings which I bestowed upon thee and thy mother – how I strengthened thee with holy inspiration, so that thou couldst speak unto men in thy cradle, and as a grown man; and how I imparted unto thee revelation and wisdom, including the Torah and the Gospel; and how by My leave thou didst create out of clay, as it were, the shape of [thy followers’] destiny, and then didst breathe into it, so that it might become, by My leave, [their] destiny; and how thou didst heal the blind and the leper by My leave, and how thou didst raise the dead by My leave; and how I prevented the children of Israel from harming thee when thou camest unto them with all evidence of the truth, and [when] those of them who were bent on denying the truth were saying ‘This is clearly nothing but deception!'”
  
  AND [remember the time] when I inspired the white-garbed ones: “Believe in Me and in My Apostle!” They answered: “We believe; and bear Thou witness that we have surrendered ourselves [unto Thee].”
  
  [And,] lo, the white-garbed ones said: “O Jesus, son of Mary! Could thy Sustainer send down unto us a repast from heaven?” [Jesus] answered: “Be conscious of God, if you are [truly] believers!”
  
  Said they: “We desire to partake thereof, so that our hearts might be set fully at rest, and that we might know that thou hast spoken the truth to us, and that we might be of those who bear witness thereto!”
  
  Said Jesus, the son of Mary: “O God, our Sustainer! Send down upon us a repast from heaven: it shall be an ever-recurring feast for us – for the first and the last of us – and a sign from Thee. And provide us our sustenance, for Thou art the best of providers!”
  
  God answered: “Verily, I [always] do send it down unto you: and so, if any of you should henceforth deny [this] truth, on him, behold, will I inflict suffering the like of which I have never [yet] inflicted upon anyone in the world!”
  
  AND LO! God said: “O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Worship me and my mother as deities beside God’?” [Jesus] answered: “Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! It would not have been possible for me to say what I had no right to [say]! Had I said this, Thou wouldst indeed have known it! Thou knowest all that is within myself, whereas I know not what is in Thy Self. Verily, it is Thou alone who fully knowest all the things that are beyond the reach of a created being’s perception.
  
  Nothing did I tell them beyond what Thou didst bid me [to say]: ‘Worship God, [who is] my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer.’ And I bore witness to what they did as long as I dwelt in their midst; but since Thou hast caused me to die, Thou alone hast been their keeper: for Thou art witness unto everything.
  
  If thou cause them to suffer – verily, they are Thy servants; and if Thou forgive them – verily, Thou alone art almighty, truly wise!”
  
  Quran, 5/ 110 to 118
  
  (My Note: Lets look at Mary’s Story in Quran below this sentence)
  
  AND CALL to mind, through this divine writ, Mary. Lo! She withdrew from her family to an east ern place.
  
  and kept herself in seclusion from them, whereupon We sent unto her Our angel of revelation, who appeared to her in the shape of a well-made human being.
  
  She exclaimed: “Verily, I seek refuge from thee with the Most Gracious! [Approach me not] if thou art conscious of Him!”
  
  [The angel] answered: “I am but a messenger of thy Sustainer, [who says,] ‘I shall bestow upon thee the gift of a son endowed with purity.'”
  
  Said she: “How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me? – for, never have I been a loose woman!”
  
  [The angel] answered: “Thus it is; [but] thy Sustainer says, ‘This is easy for Me; and [thou shalt have a son,] so that We might make him a symbol unto mankind and an act of grace from Us.” And it was a thing decreed [by God]:
  
  and in time she conceived him, and then she withdrew with him to a far-off place.
  
  And [when] the throes of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree, she exclaimed: “Oh, would that I had died ere this, and had become a thing forgotten, utterly forgotten!”
  
  Thereupon [a voice] called out to her from beneath that [palm-tree]: “Grieve not! Thy Sustainer has provided a rivulet [running] beneath thee;
  
  and shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards thee: it will drop fresh, ripe dates upon thee.
  
  Eat, then, and drink, and let shine eye be gladdened! And if thou shouldst see any human being, convey this unto him: ”Behold, abstinence from speech have I vowed unto the Most Gracious; hence, I may not speak today to any mortal.'”
  
  And in time she returned to her people, carrying the child with her. They said: “O Mary! Thou hast indeed done an amazing thing!
  
  O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother a loose woman!”
  
  Thereupon she pointed to him. They exclaimed: “How can we talk to one who [as yet] is a little boy in the cradle?”
  
  [But] he said: “Behold, I am a servant of God. He has vouchsafed unto me revelation and made me a prophet,
  
  and made me blessed wherever I may be; and He has enjoined upon me prayer and charity as long as I live,
  
  and [has I endowed me with] piety towards my mother; and He has not made me haughty or bereft of grace.
  
  “Hence, peace was upon me on the day when I was born, and [will be upon me] on the day of my death, and on the day when I shall be raised to life;! [again]!”
  
  SUCH WAS, in the words of truth, Jesus the son of Mary, about whose nature they so deeply disagree
  
  It is not conceivable that God should have: taken unto Himself a son: limitless is He in His glory! When He wills a thing to be, He but says unto it “Be” – and it is!
  
  And [thus it was that Jesus always said]: “Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship [none but] Him: this [alone] is a straight way.”
  
  Quran, 19/ 16 to 36
  
  NOW WHENEVER [the nature of] the son of Mary is set forth as an example, [O Muhammad,] lo! thy people raise an outcry on this score,
  
  and say, “Which is better – our deities or he?” [But] it is only in the spirit of dispute that they put this comparison before thee: yea, they are contentious folk!
  
  [As for Jesus,] he was nothing but [a human being -] a servant [of Ours] whom We had graced [with prophethood], and whom We made an example for the children of Israel.
  
  And had We so willed, [O you who worship angels,] We could indeed have made you into angels succeeding one another on earth!
  
  AND, BEHOLD, this [divine writ] is indeed a means to know [that] the Last Hour [is bound to come]; hence, have no doubt whatever about it, but follow Me: this [alone] is a straight way.
  
  And let not Satan bar you [from it] – for, verily, he is your open foe!
  
  NOW WHEN Jesus came [to his people] with all evidence of the truth, he said: “I have now come unto you with wisdom, and to make clear unto you some of that on which you are at variance: hence, be conscious of God, and pay heed unto me.
  
  “Verily, God is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer; so worship [none but] Him: this [alone] is a straight way!”
  
  But factions from among those [who came after Jesus] began to hold divergent views: woe, then, unto those who are bent on evildoing – [woe] for the suffering [that will befall them] on a grievous Day!
  
  Quran, 42/ 13 to 65
  
  My notes: Firstly, I have shared some Quranic verses’ translations with you. These are just translations but if you know Arabic you can read them in original text.
Henri Chevillard

It is a good thing those white evangelical Christians murdered most of the natives so that they could not be a part of this Discriminated process.
Priscilla Parise

“Only 21% of Americans say they’d be less likely to vote for an evangelical for president.”

You might want to take another look at that chart. How can this article be taken seriously when the incorrect numbers are used?
davidskidmore

Not sure of the agenda of this website but I could not help but notice the comment a disappointing number of respondents to a survey found religion as being a positive. I find this concerting as I feel religion restains the bad impulses of mankind. Note Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. All examples of non religious ideologues who slaughter their fellow human beings. The 20th century can be looked upon as the secular ideologues annihilation of their fellow man.
- Leigh Tatum
  
  where exactly does religion “restrain the bad impulses of mankind”? Let me explain it simply so you can get it, no matter what religion you have, if you aren’t already a decent human being, religion isn’t going to change it
  Look at congress and you see what I mean, or how about the child molesting priests?
  - Hank
    
    You know, I agree with you and used to feel pretty much the same way. But when I asked the question to a couple of guys that were really nice guys and religiously inclined, they were quick to say if it wasn’t for a belief/fear of God, they would act entirely differently. Needless to say, I was very surprised and am convinced one doesn’t have to be a Christian or even believe in God to be a good person.
    - FedSec
      
      Yes, after spewing all your BS about how white Christians are so discriminated against. You are such a liar.
      
      Ok…I won’t call you any vile names this time since I responded to you.
      
      But next time….
      - Hank
        
        Ooooooooo!! I’m skeered!! Another Liberal is going to call me names?? Get in line lightweight. ;-)
      - FedSec
        
        Silly! I’m the same liberal who’s been calling you names all day!
        
        You’ve forgotten me so quickly? I thought I was memorable! And now I has a sad. :-(
      - Hank
        
        You are truly dense. I should pity you. NOT!!
      - LatK
        
        Hank: I keep reading your comments, but, while I can accept that you are white, I can find nothing of Christ in your comments, so, if I decided I disliked you it would have nothing to do with your being a white evangelical, it would be because i don’t like hypocrites, no matter what they call themselves.
      - Hank
        
        While you’re deciding if you like me, I’ll decide if I care.
      - BobSimonhouse
        
        So are you a hypocrite?
      - Hank
        
        Are you a fool? If not, please provide proof.
      - BobSimonhouse
        
        No, I’m not a fool. And I don’t need to provide proof, its only my opinion.
        Are you a hypocrite?
      - Hank
        
        We disagree again! :)
        
        Actually, I’m kinda on the aethist side of agnostic.
      - BobSimonhouse
        
        Okay, I guess that answers my question, once I go back and refresh my perception on this thread. FedSec refers above to “all your BS about how white Christians are so discriminated against.”, but I haven’t read that and FedSec has no credibility in my mind, so I’ll take it you’re not a hypocrite.
        Why do you think I’m a fool?
        And hey, agnostic! There we can agree. The only true answer to that question is that we don’t know, all else is just faith/belief.
      - FedSec
        
        As if I give a shit what you think about me. You’re probably BOTH Evangelicals trying to appear sane.
        
        Good luck with that, asshole.
      - Hank
        
        Attempted wry humor. You seem bright enough. Not that I’m necessarily an expert. :)
        
        eta: That was supposed to be in response to your “Why do you think I’m a fool?” Down the thread there.
danny floridacracker

can you imagine a world without believers in a GOD or BUDDHA or JESUS or some thing ?
- Leigh Tatum
  
  yes
kid_you_not

Why break things up that way? Whites are discriminated against more than anyone else in this country. Whites are OFFICIALLY second-class citizens. Ever hear of “protected groups”? That means ANYONE but Whites. This notion needs to be challenged and done away with.
- FedSec
  
  Not sure what you’re talking about here.
- Leigh Tatum
  
  you exemplify the results of the poll LMAO
Paper Boy

There are endless groups in the population that have a variety of interests, principles, religious affiliations, clubs, nationalities, age groups, education, work skills, bowling leagues, and many more. Nevertheless the Pew forum has seen the opportunity of a doozy of a poll which deals with discrimination for the purpose of analysis. However the poll actually draws sharper edges and lines of differences that will cause groups to feel superior over one another. Thus there is no understanding and contention continues.
Drebin

Mike, could you clarify a few things in your article?

* “Only 21% of Americans say they’d be less likely to vote for an evangelical for president”: I think the number is 17%, from the chart. Although, on a discussion level, I find it interesting that the pro/against level for that one item is so relatively large, and yet fairly even between the two aligned camps.

* Basing my interpretation of the initial graph on discrimination solely on the titles within it, it looks like that chart is saying that “more evangelical Christians perceive that there is “a lot of” discrimination”, than “a majority of evangelical Christians perceive that there is more discrimination against them then any other group”. These aren’t the same thing. Could you review the Pew poll and perhaps clarify the chart in question? Otherwise I think your analysis is misleading.

I think it’s a pity that the Pew poll didn’t ask the same question in regards to the other dominant religions of the world. I mean, Islam is the obvious stalking horse choice, but why not Buddhism? Hinduism?
Jeremy Holmbo

They worship a martyr. This isn’t exactly surprising.
John Topper

I think they are discriminated against because they are obnoxious and hypocritical!
Michael

Everyone can take their whiny ass race cards and cram them up their asses. And with the media lapping at the teet of racism because they can’t find anything else to get the people riled up, it has become an over saturation of bullshit and the people fall for it every time. What a way to keep this racial retardation alive people
- Leigh Tatum
  
  People of color are being MURDERED at an alarming rate BECAUSE of their skin tone and you would like us to believe that racism isn’t dangerous?
  - Hank
    
    But mostly because others of the same color are murdering them.
    - LatK
      
      Hank: I can only sincerely hope that you are not one of those who calls himself a Christian.
      - Hank
        
        You know. I can’t quite put my finger on it. But there is something very unlikeable about your smug, holier than thou attitude.
        
        I don’t think Jesus would like you.
      - Hank
        
        And what would that have to do with the accuracy of my statement?
    - BobSimonhouse
      
      Good one Hank!
- BobSimonhouse
  
  Yeah, media teet sucking the racism means racism isn’t real! I’m so tired of people acting like racism is real. Especially black people!
cipher

Their collective victimization myth is the cement that holds together their insane subculture.
- danny floridacracker
  
  well said and to thier credit being being bought and sold and considered property until the end of the civil war when hundreds of thousands died you can understand why 150 years later they are still trying to recover i mean dammit look how long it took the japanese people to recover after WW2 and become a healthy wealthy thriving respecfed culture we are talking about the same insane subculture right? oh damn there i go with my meanness again why are you hating christians for being opposed to homosexuality and aetheists there are cults or groups or followers of some religion out there would murder people for not believing as they do christians do not encourage the faithful to commit murder
  - FedSec
    
    Please provide the biblical verse that says “Love they neighbor unless they are black, then you are free to be as racist as you wanna be.”
    
    And you wonder why the rest of despise you so-called “Christians.”
    - Hank
      
      While I’m working on that, you want to show me the verse in the Bible that says hate all Christians and call them names if they don’t believe as you do??
      
      For the most part, I don’t think Christians despise you. They feel sorry for you.
      - FedSec
        
        Isaiah 29:13 – Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
        
        Matthew 7:21-23 – Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
        
        James 1:26 – If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion [is] vain.
        
        Revelation 3:15-16 – I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
        
        Want more? I gotta bunch of ’em.
        
        READ YOUR BIBLE!
        
        Dummy.
      - Hank
        
        If you can avoid the sophomoric, editorial comments, exactly which of those do you feel says it’s okay to hate people and call them names?.
      - FedSec
        
        See? You can’t read and have no idea what the Bible says.
        
        All of these are Jesus telling YOU SPECIFICALLY that you are not the type of Christian he wants in his kingdom in heaven. All of them are DIRECTLY FROM THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE.
        
        He doesn’t like your brand of hateful Christianity.
        
        Deal with it.
      - Hank
        
        Okay.
      - LatK
        
        Hank, as a serious Christian, i am telling you that you need to go look in the mirror and take the plank out of your own eye so that you can see to take the moat out of the eye of others. I am not a liberal, but i am mortified at the path the so-called Christian Right and Moral Majority have taken. The hatred forces me, along with millions of others, to vote for the other side. Christ said we should love our brethen, but, despite his teachings, all I can find among the far right wing is hatred of anyone different from them. The Bible is rife with passages discussing our differences but the conclusion is always the same, Rev. 7:9-10 “In this new life, it doesn’t matter if you are a Jew or a Gentile,circumcised or uncircumcised, barbaric, uncivilized, slave, or free. Christ is all that matters, and he lives in all of us.” It is a shame that your side believes that he only lives in you. There are many things i don’t agree with, but God gave us free will and we are each allowed to make our own choices and decide which path we take. Please remember Matt: 7:13. 13″Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” You’d do better to absorb yourself in the word, learn what it means and learn what it means to strive for the narrow gate versus trying to choose the path that others take (it is really none of your business as god does not need our help as he can harden or soften any heart that he chooses). Believe me, right now you are not on the path that you think you are on. You are allowing the world to dictate your actions and have forgotten the most important word Jesus left us with, and that word is “LOVE.”.
      - Hank
        
        Okay.
        
        (Matthew 7:1-3)
      - LatK
        
        Luke 17:3
        “So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.”
        
        “Correction is not judgment, as the Bible says that we should correct, rebuke and be bold to those who are sinning. It is to be done in an act of caring for them in the hope that they will believe. That way we could contribute to the saving of a soul. If we don’t, we could be responsible for suppressing the truth which could mean eternal death instead of eternal life for that person. “James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.”
      - FedSec
        
        Shouldn’t you be asking that of Republican, Tea Party and rightwing religious leaders who have made it the Republican party national platform to demonize women, minorities and the poor?
      - Hank
        
        Hmmm…let’s see now.
        
        War against women? Check!
        
        War against blacks? Check!
        
        War against the poor? Check!
        
        By golly! I think you’ve done it! You’ve coverd all the left wing, liberal talking points. Good little sheep.
      - FedSec
        
        When the evidence supports the argument, they are no longer talking points, they are facts.
      - FedSec
        
        I call you fake Christian and other names because you want to believe that you are holier than me as you sit in a pew each Sunday, unable to comprehend that your pastor is lying to you and you won’t research for yourself.
        
        You’re nothing but a tool of the Satan you believe in because you DON’T follow Christ’s teachings.
        
        You are loathsome in the eyes of both man and the God I don’t believe in but you do.
      - Hank
        
        I haven’t been inside a Church for anything other than other people’s weddings in probably 35+ years. I guess that makes the rest of this comment like all your others. Senseless babbling.
      - FedSec
        
        Then shut the f*ck up and quit bothering me.
      - Hank
        
        Another delusional liberal. You’re stalking me!
      - FedSec
        
        You wish.
    - danny floridacracker
      
      i dont remember saying i hated anyone James 4-11 do not speak evil of one another bretheren .he who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law .you are not a doer of the law but a judge. this goes for anyone .Speaking truth is not a sin , no matter how painful .The truth shall set you free .iIdo not hate people. I hate violence . most of the christians you despise hate violence. Please do not judge the mostly good christians because of the stupid things i post sometimes
      - FedSec
        
        If U.S. Christians were mostly good, conservatism wouldn’t currently be spending so much time demonizing the poor and downtrodden. U.S. Christians are HORRIBLE PEOPLE and Jesus would “spew them from [his] mouth” for their MOST un-Christ-like behavior.
        
        The world watched as these assholes terrorized immigrant CHILDREN as they came across our border. Didn’t Jesus say, “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven”?
        
        U.S. conservative Christians are sanctimonious ignorant scum and may they burn in hell for their fake Christianity.
        
        Don’t bother preaching to me. I’M AN ATHEIST. Dummy.
        
        BTW, you assholes just can’t handle it when someone KNOWS THE BIBLE MUCH BETTER THAN YOU, can you?
  - Aaron Wexler
    
    Danny! Use punctuation and spellcheck, please. I can barely follow your hate speech right now.
Blah

Oh the irony. An article that mocks Evangelicals for being over sensitive to discrimination drips with loathing for them.
“A disturbing 59% of Americans say they want members of Congress to “have strong religious beliefs.”

“….and given the fact that evangelicals themselves are the cause of some very real discrimination……”

So Michael, you think Evangelicals should be as tolerant as you I guess?

“….there is thus a mountainous irony at play here.”
Iramohs

Meanwhile Christians in Iraq are getting executed for practicing their faith.
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  Previously, under Hussein, the Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq was a Christian. And now just about everyone in Iraq is being persecuted or executed, or threatened with either or both, or logically fearing the chaos of a failed state.
  
  Bad shit happens in failed states and it takes a long time to regain stability. Restoration would be a pipe dream.
- Leigh Tatum
  
  bull corn
  PEOPLE are being executed in Iraq because its a failed state
  - Hank
    
    People are being executed in Iraq because crazy savages are in control of parts of it.
Adrian M. Kleinbergen

Evanjellycals are _not_ persecuted but _should_ be. It would be well-earned by their arrogance and presumption to judge all they consider beneath them. (which is everyone else) as hell-bound sinners.
Jaketheman

White people thinking they’re oppressed? Shocker.
- Jonny Overcat
  
  Heh heh..and statistically, who has benefitted the most, by far, from affirmative action? White women.
LoudGuitr

Anyone who would vote for an Evangelical Christian is someone who is willing to put someone in power who doesn’t understand the difference between reality and fantasy.
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  Yeah, who can forget Jimmy Carter’s reign of pure madness?
  - LoudGuitr
    
    Touché, Felonious. I think you got me there. Hadn’t thought of that. Well done.
therealdrag0

Typo: “21% … less likely” It’s actually 17%! Which is worse.
D_C_Wilson

Of course they think they’re being discriminated against. They tell themselves they are every day. And who can blame them? The fact that they’re prevented from discriminate against gays, atheists, and everyone else they don’t like proves how oppressed they are!
TTaylor

Well to be fair…. Obviously Jonah lived in a whale.
merl1

The feeling of persecution where none exists is part of their belief system. They all like to fantasize about being martyrs without actually feeling any pain.
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  Yeah, remember that time that guy was nailed to a cross? It’s just like that when people disagree with evangelicals. Oddly enough, the ones who take the martyrdom to heart to such a degree that they actually have themselves nailed to a cross*, or who, for instance, drag an enormous oak cross that must way about a hundred and fifty pounds (at least!) down a freeway in Houston on a really hot August day, are a little more interesting than the pedestrian types.
  
  * note to self, draft a proposal for a self-crucification kit that can be sold for $39.99
  - ShoeUnited
    
    Which guy? There were like 3 of them up on that hill.
    - FedSec
      
      Wow. So you no longer know which one was the the Christian Lord and Savior?
  - JamieHaman
    
    You can sell the kit for that, but the shipping is what’s going to cost. Or go with a flagellation kit instead. (tongue in cheek here)
http://dancefloordale.com HOTDOGTSUNAMI

More people would rather have a president with zero prior elected experience than a non-religious president. So more people would rather have someone with virtually zero experience than a president with significant experience but isn’t religious. That’s fucking scary.
Tim

And this article and poll will be held up as proof….
- Jonny Overcat
  
  No need. The poll simply confirms what is already quite evident, based on the collected rantings of many, many conservative evangelicals over the past several years.
GammaRae

And when it comes to the ‘oath’ issue, it’s particularly funny, since the Christian Bible says not to swear oaths at all.
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  Say, “yeah, nay”. I take that one to heart, if for no other reason than it lending itself to the humility of knowing that we can’t control our own futures and the world around them to the degree that we can guarantee our success or the content of the oath to be relevant or appropriate in that future.
  
  Not that I don’t make promises, but I don’t take them lightly by any stretch.
- TTaylor
  
  Those bastards probably eat shell fish too.
  
  Leviticus 11:10 “And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.”
  
  Translation: No oysters! No clams! No… sea urchins, I think?
  - SmilingAtheist
    
    And Crow……
    - danny floridacracker
      
      wow if i become atheist will i be as happy and serene as you guys and could i learn to coexist with the apex predators and superior evolutionary beings that us anglo-saxons have become you know “they” say we rule the world and that is what gives us “white devils “the ability to hold our fellow humans of color down dont you just hate those white evangelicals who are risking thier lives in africa trying to stop africans from dying from the ebola epidemic selfish bastards probably are sitting down in an african owned Red Lobster now as we speak gulping down oysters on the half shell and swilling beer and while millions of africans are working sunup to sundown on thier farms and ranches and paying taxes oh and dont get me started on the white christian doctor who pretended to contract ebola so he could be on tv who does he think he is?I just want to watch african americans looting and burning and a few of those really funny harmless black men playing the knockout game now that is ENTERTAINMENT but NOOOO i have to hear his sob story about losing everything he owns and do you think that his fellow CHRISTIANS will lift one finger to help him out oh NOOO the nation ISLAM will probably end up helping that poor unfortunate family i think they have scholarship programs for gifted female students the christians dont have a clue i mean everybody knows that women should be married by the time they are in fourth grade right ?and that if your wife the mother of your children cheats on you that GOD wants you to hit her in the head with rocks seriously are you people so far out of touch with reality or so filled with hatred that you think believers are bad people???
      - Chaduke
        
        If you used punctuation and condensed it down to a just a few sentences someone might actually read what you have to say.
      - FedSec
        
        Word!
      - danny floridacracker
        
        i was ranting and i type with one finger took me an hour to write the message i do not know if i remember how to punctuate to be honest i dropped out of high school and was never very smart to begin with
      - FedSec
        
        Nope. Not gonna touch this.
      - Aaron Wexler
        
        Ok. This has gotta be a joke.
      - danny floridacracker
        
        FedSec and Mr. Wexler hey guys this is no joke FedSec go ahead and respond i really honest to GOD have a double digit IQ less than 99 and the only thing i enjoy more than laughing at crazy delusional people is laughing at myself i really get belly laughs at schizophrenics who think some government agency has them under 24 hour survellance “i spelt dat wrong” (i am too damn lazy too look it up) one of the guys in the prison psych ward with me was really smart like you guys. before prison he was homeless in miami . i would ask him why would the government would spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to watch you 24/7 ? i mean if your that much of a danger to the government and you were living under a bridge would nt they just get some guy like Oswald to pop one in you? Gotta Go !May GOD bless you all !!!
      - Chaduke
        
        Just throw a period and a few spaces after each sentence, like where you’d take a breath if you were speaking it.
      - danny floridacracker
        
        thank you for the advice (not being sarcastic) may GOD bless you!
      - Gallinipper87
        
        I read it :p
      - doGfOodliD
        
        You’re right, incinerate them.
      - DFW EMS
        
        what the hell are you trying to say? it sounds like you are on some combination of speed and a hallucinogen.
  - Matheus Kramer
    
    Jesus ended Moses day by day rules. You should try to educate yourself.
    - Antheas
      
      You should too; no where in the Bible does Jesus say get rid of day by day rules. Unless you can provide proof of that verse? I’ll be glad to retort to it also. All sins and rules are the same. They are just forgiven. That was the new covenant. If the 10 commandments still apply then so do all of the other rules.
      - Friend12345
        
        17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
        
        20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”
      - Antheas
        
        So just food is clean now. That’s one rule. How in anyway does this negate all other ones?
        
        Even if it was all of the little laws, what about all of the laws that you should put people to death or stone? There are tons of those. I.E Homosexuals, killing disobedient children, witches, etc.
        
        All of those rules and you can only provide one about food?
      - Friend12345
        
        There are many different examples in which Jesus uses to teach the masses…..see above comment Matheus Kramer….Jesus is the game changer…..All through the new testament He respectfully challenges the laws of Moses and how the current people of the day obeyed them. Mark 12:28-31
        
        Paul also reconfirms this in Eph 2:14-15. I do not want to argue just want to clarify that the leading comment of this post is misleading and inaccurate.
      - LatK
        
        There are two covenants, one with the Israelites and one with the followers of the Way (the early name for Christians), or in other words, if I don’t pay my light bill, they don’t turn my gas off. Israelites live by the law, followers of Christ live by Grace. Every word that you utter shows that you know nothing about Christianity and are just pulling scripture out at random and have no concept of what you are talking about. For the record, the majority of so-called Evangelical Christians haven’t a clue of what it means to serve Christ and brings to mind the passage, Matthew 7:22. 22″Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23″And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’ No real followers of Christ could spout the hate and nastiness that emanates from the mouths of these so-called Christians. As it says in Romans 14:6 “…5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;…” The only absolute given in the bible is that there is only one Way to him and that is through Jesus. If we live our lives to serve the True Living God, we have choices and are not bound by man’s nonsense and or rhetoric but are called to live our lives in certain manners and we do not have to cross our eyes three times, pat our toes twice and turn half way around in a circle to have a relationship with him (in other words, rituals are meaningless). If you have three children and treat them all exactly the same, at least one of them is getting shortchanged as they each have different needs, so, “If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” You need to stop spouting and sit down and learn something as arguments are meaningless, especially with people who know nothing about how to develop a real relation with our Heavenly Father, because I can assure you that you gain nothing by having ridiculous arguments with others who have as little understanding as you.
      - LatK
        
        By the way, I have read the Bible hundreds of time, and have yet to grasp the full meaning of it so searching for passages to back up nonsense avails you nothing. It is the LIVING WORD, and, as you grow, it grows in you.
      - NINJA_PUNCH
        
        I highly doubt that you’ve read the Bible “hundreds of times” (I might be tempted to believe “dozens”, maybe); however, if you have and you claim to not yet have grasped it’s “full meaning”, that tells me all that I really need to know about you.
        
        You are not going through the Bible trying to figure out what it means, because you can understand the full meaning of the Bible in only one reading. You’re claim that it is a “living”document, is only proof of your own desire to invent a deeper meaning for it. The Bible is not a “living” document in any sense of the word. It does not admit of change. It sets down primitive myths and barbaric misogynistic attempts at morality, as eternal law. Your attempts to impose a deeper meaning onto the Bible, are just: your attempts to impose a deeper meaning, and pretend that you are gaining wisdom via your imaginary findings. They’re indicative of you personally wish to be true, not the intentions of the writers.
        
        These people who you dismiss as having “little understanding” are the ones who will look at a book of primitive bronze/iron age mythology, and say “hey look, that’s a book of primitive bronze/iron age mythology”. Meanwhile you’re over here carrying out the theological equivalent of children jumping from one piece of furniture to the other because the floor is “lava”, and imagining that this game is teaching you some hidden wisdom. Sure it makes the game much more interesting, but it’s still a childish game, and we’re still going to look at you, smile, nod, and say “yes dear, now go play”.
      - LatK
        
        I can have no discussion with anyone who thinks that you can understand everything in the Bible through one reading. The Bible is the Living word, and understanding grows as a person grows in Christ. All I can say is I feel sorry for you and pray one day that you discover the truth before it is to late.
      - NINJA_PUNCH
        
        Don’t you mean to say that you mean will pray that Yhwh changes his mind? After all John 12:37-40, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:29, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:11-13, and Jude 4 all clearly state that Yhwh decides who will go to heaven, and who will go to hell, and there’s nothing that anyone can do about it.
        
        Romans 9:14-23 even goes a step further stating that Yhwh creates people with the intent to send them to hell, so that those whom he allows into heaven can witness their torture and reflect on how fortunate they are that Yhwh didn’t choose them to receive similar torture. Presumably the “all-knowing” Yhwh cannot come up with any way of making an eternity in his presence even remotely bearable without threatening his “blessed” with constant scenes of eternal torment.
        
        If I am not a Christian, there are only two possible reasons: 1) Yhwh doesn’t exist, 2) Yhwh delights in the thought of tormenting me and billions of other people for an eternity.
        
        Now then, run along and play. Watch out for that lava!
      - FedSec
        
        Nicely done! Such logic also led me to atheism.
        
        If God really existed, he sure is a sadistic bastard, especially to little children.
      - FedSec
        
        You do understand that your hundreds of readings and not understanding has more to do with your intellectual capacity than it does any biblical mystery, yes?
      - Philip Marks
        
        And don’t forget the mixed fabric thing, no blending!
      - Matheus Kramer
        
        And one of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ “The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:28-31) See? Every commandment replaced by two. Saint Paul confirmed that in his letter to the Ephesians, that the “law of commandments contained in ordinances” was “abolished” by the death of Jesus upon the cross (2:14-15). That is the biggest problem with hatred, turns you blind and ignorant. Your hateful comment is harmless in your logic but poisonous for any Christian and that is the main reason a majority feel persecuted but there is not enough reason and civility in the world that can change this level of hatred so i am unsubscribing any answer in this topic. If you want to talk about theology try to know anything about it or avoid this pathetic level of hatred and ignorance.
      - Antheas
        
        Hatred? What hatred have I portrayed? I think you’re making assumptions about my mood or feelings toward the Bible. It’s is a long boring book with some interesting parts in it.
        
        Saint Paul wasn’t talking about the commandments. Paul himself defines what this “law of commandments contained in
        ordinances” is; it is “the enmity”—which he mentions twice (verses
        15-16)—between Jews and Gentiles (see verses 11-12). He also calls it
        “the middle wall of division” in verse 14. Whatever “the law of
        commandments contained in ordinances” is, it causes hatred and division.
        This rules out right away that it refers to God’s law, for it, Paul
        writes in Romans 7:12, “is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.”
        
        All laws still apply. Vague verses from the Bible won’t help you on this one. Your sins are forgiven, but the laws absolutely still apply.
        
        If you’re going to accuse me of things then don’t be so sensitive about it. Ad hominem is a horrible tactic.
      - FedSec
        
        “”The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
        
        And the rest of us wish you Christians would REALLY BEGIN to live this commandment.
        
        But you don’t, do you?
        
        Proof? THE ENTIRE CONSERVATIVE AGENDA.
      - Hank
        
        So, are you saying there are no “Liberal” Christians? That would be sad.
      - FedSec
        
        My mother is a straight up liberal Christian and has been her entire life. She and those who worship as she does are proof that Liberal Christians are MUCH MORE CHRIST-LIKE than you ignorantly hateful CONSERVATIVE Christians.
        
        You morons have absolutely NO IDEA how Christ lived his life, what he believed and what he taught.
        
        Proof? YOU SUPPORT CONSERVATIVE IDEAS ABOUT THE POOR AND HELPLESS.
        
        Conservative Christians are so UNLIKE Christ, they are going to get a NASTY shock when Jesus does eventually return (if I believed this).
      - Hank
        
        “Ignorantly hateful”? “Morons”? “A**holes”?? Your mother sure didn’t do a very good job with you??
        
        Thank you for your insight into what “Christians” really are. If you are a product of a “Liberal Christian” upbringing, I think I’ll be happy with my Conservatism.
      - FedSec
        
        See? You want to believe that I am representative of liberal Christianity when I am in fact an atheist. But I was raised in the church and, unlike you, I ACTUALLY STUDIED THE BIBLE, so I know what’s in it. I didn’t just follow what my pastor said. I looked and learned for myself and my logical mind, much to my mother’s grief, has lead me to no longer believe in a higher being.
        
        But I don’t claim any ties to Christianity. And you do.
        
        And I KNOW that you and those who practice as you do are as unlike Christ’s teachings as one can get.
        
        I’m not a Christian, so I have no obligation to follow Christian dogma. But I do because I have a heart and empathy and care about my fellowman.
        
        EXACTLY AS CHRIST TAUGHT.
        
        Except for when it comes to fake Christians and false prophets. Then f*ck you guys.
      - Hank
        
        I don’t really care who or what you are. I just pointed out that you’re a rude and insulting individual running through the comments, calling people names and insulting their beliefs while bragging about what a good liberal Christian lady your mother is. While your behavior certainly doesn’t suggest that.
        
        The original premise is that White Christians are discriminated against. And it is the only form of discrimination that is widely, socially acceptable.
        
        I agree with that assertion. And I don’t think that makes me ignorant, a moron and certainly not an a**hole. It just makes me have a different view point and opinion.
        
        Now honestly, I may be all three of those. But just not because I disagree with YOU! That would be a plus for me.
      - FedSec
        
        Actually, I only called you names. And that other d@ckhead.
        
        I thought you a-hole Republicans believed in personal responsibility, but you want to blame my mother for my behavior? I’m over 50, dummy, she doesn’t get credit anymore.
        
        Poor, poor white conservative Christians, so busy demonizing everyone else and now we are supposed to shed tears because no one wants to put up with your bullshit brand of Christianity anymore? GROW THE F*CK UP.
        
        Conservative Christians deserve every bit of whatever they perceive as discrimination because they are intolerant, racist, bigoted assholes to everyone else.
        
        Is that how Jesus taught you to act?
      - Hank
        
        Yeah. Maybe if I “Grow The F**k Up”, I’ll learn to communicate without using all those childish insults.
      - FedSec
        
        Give it shot.
        
        Perhaps you might want to attend a Sunday school class or three because you’ve obviously forgotten:
        
        DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.
        
        Now…me being atheist? You can call me all the names you want. Won’t bother me one bit.
        
        I ain’t a Christian.
      - Hank
        
        No. You’re just an unintelligent individual that doesn’t know how to communicate properly. AND the lack of challenge is getting boring.
      - FedSec
        
        …and your IQ is…?
      - http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac
        
        The original premise is that White Christians are discriminated against. And it is the only form of discrimination that is widely, socially acceptable.
        
        I agree with that assertion. And I don’t think that makes me ignorant, a moron and certainly not an a**hole. It just makes me have a different view point and opinion.
        
        Actually, it just makes you not very observant or objective.
      - Hank
        
        At least that’s better than ignorant, moronic a**hole!!
      - Philip Marks
        
        Well he was just sharing his personal experience of Christian practice. It’s not so much insight as outsight.
      - BobSimonhouse
        
        What do you say to the point that Conservative ideas about the poor and helpless conflict with the teaching of Christ?
      - Hank
        
        They don’t.
      - BobSimonhouse
        
        I disagree, i think they do.
      - Hank
        
        I have no doubt that your twisted understanding of what “Conservative Ideas” are would.
      - BobSimonhouse
        
        To paraphrase Christ’s teachings, I think She said we should do what we can to help the poor.
        Conservative ideas that conflict with that:
        Do not raise the minimum wage and even abolish it.
        Money equates to free speech.
        Reduce and remove social program spending by the government.
        Reduce and remove regulations of industry that protect our land, air and water – as a result protect our health.
        I’ll just start with those 4. How badly am I twisted regarding Conservative ideas?
      - Hank
        
        I don’t have time right now but did want to note that, historically speaking, the person credited with being the “Christ” was a man. Now if you wanted to make the assertion that God was a woman, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with you.
        
        To me, God resides where answers end.
      - NINJA_PUNCH
        
        Just because there is no commandment “greater than those” doesn’t mean that they don’t apply. Just because murder is a felony, doesn’t mean “disturbing the peace” isn’t a misdemeanor. In the same way, saying “love Yhwh, and love your neighbor” doesn’t mean “Prohibitions on shellfish don’t count anymore”. You can love your neighbor and still not eat shellfish, right? In fact John 14:15 specifically says “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” so the greatest law in the Bible (to love Yhwh) DEMANDS that you follow every Old Testament Law.
        
        Sure Paul tries to sneak around it and say that the Old Testament doesn’t apply anymore, but look at what else Paul has to say on the topic. In Galatians 5:2-4 Paul says:
        
        “Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by the lawhave been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
        
        Since 79% of men in the U.S. are circumcised, even if Paul did say that uncircumcised men are not under the law, statistically speaking, that declaration probably doesn’t apply to you. You are still obligated to follow the Old Testament, because – odds are – you are incapable of salvation through Jesus. Being a Christian is no longer an option for you once you’ve been circumcised.
        
        I’m sorry that you seem to think that searching for truth, and pointing out blatant falsehoods in Biblical teaching is “hatred”. You are correct to notice that logic and truth are “poisonous for any Christian” but to that, I can only respond by quoting P.C. Hodgell:
        
        “That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
      - LatK
        
        Ninja_Punch, you haven’t a clue. Please read my comments a little further down, and, hopefully, learn something.
      - NINJA_PUNCH
        
        You’re right, I did learn something. I learned that if you’re desperate to believe that the Bible doesn’t mean what it says, you can spend years reading it and not understand and still not understand a word.
        
        To quote Kierkegaard:
        “The matter is quite simple. The bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly.”
        
        In the Old and New Testaments slavery is morally permissible. In the Old and New Testaments womyn are subhuman property. In the Old and New Testaments Yhwh/Yeshua has the right to enact a system of thoughtcrime and hold you guilty for actions that you did not take. In the Old and New Testaments Yhwh/Yeshua maintains the right to hold you guilty for obeying him, as well as for disobeying him. Throughout the Bible Yhwh clearly demonstrates his sadomasochism, and his hideous immorality. As such it is no surprise to me that you expend so much effort in making it seem convoluted.
        
        Try reading the Bible one more time, and this time try to understand what it actually says, instead of what you wish that it said, who knows, you might just learn something.
      - LatK
        
        Unfortunately, you haven’t a clue as to what you are talking about. The Bible is the living word, and it changes and grows as we grow. And, no, the Bible is not easy to understand as you and others like you have no idea that The Lord only opens the word up to those he chooses and scripture certainly mentions people like you. Mark 4:12 “so that the Scriptures might be fulfilled: ‘When they see what I do, they will learn nothing. When they hear what I say, they will not understand. Otherwise, they will turn to me and be forgiven.'” and, you obviously have no concept of the Bible, the fact that it is the living word and that a cursory reading is meaningless. It’s like trying to become a medical doctor in one year full stop. Only a foolish person would believe that possible. Need I say more.
      - NINJA_PUNCH
        
        No you don’t need to say anything more. Now run along and play. Make sure you don’t touch the lava!
      - Philip Marks
        
        I hate to get lawyerly here but he didn’t REPEAL anything, he just gave the top two priorities… “There is no other commandment greater than these,” does not mean “there is no other commandment than these”
  - Rahil Sethi
    
    what about Frog legs? I have heard they taste like chicken!
  - I Pray
    
    9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up onthe housetop about the [a]sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 11 and he *saw the[b]sky opened up, and an [c]object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and [d]crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the [e]air. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, [f]kill and eat!” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything [g]unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider [h]unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the [i]object was taken up into the [j]sky. Acts 10:9-16
    
    23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his [a]neighbor. 25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and [b]all it contains. 1 Corinthians 10:23-26
    
    Here’s a thought: Perhaps you should consider reading the rest of that “really thick book”.
  - I Pray
    
    9 On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up onthe housetop about the [a]sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance; 11 and he *saw the[b]sky opened up, and an [c]object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and [d]crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the [e]air. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, [f]kill and eat!” 14 But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything [g]unholy and unclean.” 15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, nolonger consider [h]unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the [i]object was taken up into the [j]sky. Acts 10:9-16 23 All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his [a]neighbor. 25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and [b]all it contains. 1 Corinthians 10: 23-26 Perhaps you should consider reading the rest of that “really thick book”.
  - I Pray
    
    9
    On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went
    up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray. 10 But he became hungry and
    was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a
    trance; 11 and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet
    coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground, 12 and there were in it all
    kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of
    the air. 13 A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!” 14 But Peter
    said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”
    15 Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer
    consider unholy.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the object was
    taken up into the sky. Acts 10:9-16 23
    
    All
    things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful,
    but not all things edify. 24 Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
    25 Eat anything that is sold in the meat market without asking questions for
    conscience’ sake; 26 for the earth is the Lord’s, and all it contains. 1
    Corinthians 10: 23-26
    
    Perhaps
    you should consider reading the rest of that “really thick book”.
  - Philip Marks
    
    No shrimp and that alone would make me pagan.
  - Gallinipper87
    
    You forgot the best man Lobster. Anyone who eats Lobster is going to hell (I couldn’t type that without LMFAO).
- D_C_Wilson
  
  Well, in their defense, it’s not like they ever read that thing. It’s a really thick book.
  - I Pray
    
    I’ve read that whole “really thick book”. More than once actually, so if you want I could probably explain it to you. I know “really thick books” can be really tough to understand sometimes.
    - AttilatheBlond
      
      What makes you think anyone here needs you to explain it to them? The presumption that people who might disagree are somehow lacking in comprehension is rather telling.
      - I Pray
        
        Presumptuous, says the person whose original statement was ” Well, in their defense, it’s not like they ever read that thing. It’s a really thick book.” I apologize. I just assumed that you hadn’t read it all the way through. After all it is a really thick book. Perhaps I was wrong. Did you read it? All the way through? I think it is presumptuous, and rather telling that you assume (based on your original statement) all evangelical Christians check their brains at the door when they walk into their place of worship.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        If you’ve read the Bible and are still evangelical then it logically follows you checked your brain at the door before doing so.
      - AttilatheBlond
        
        I didn’t say “presumptuous” I said “The presumption…” You used adjective, I used noun, referring to your suggestion that other poster didn’t comprehend the bible would need your help with such studies. THAT was presumptuous, like you ASSumed that person was not able to critically think just because he/she doesn’t follow your beliefs.
        
        I never claimed to have read it. But I have read the New Testament. What I noticed is the lack of similarity to what it teaches and how many self-defined ‘Christians’ actually live. Unlike what the Master, Jesus, taught, most
        
        ‘xians’ ( I save Christians for those who actually walk the walk, which is very few) don’t do your praying in the closet, but rather make a big show of it while fussing at the rest of us for not bowing to your presumptuous ‘superior’ ::snicker:: wisdom.
      - AttilatheBlond
        
        I am NOT the person whose original statement was “Well, in their defense, it’s not like they ever read that thing. It’s a really thick book.”
        
        MY original statement was: “What makes you think anyone here needs you to explain it to them? The
        presumption that people who might disagree are somehow lacking in comprehension is rather telling.” A question, I note, you have still failed to answer. You don’t have to answer, that’s fine, but it says a lot about you that you seem to be confused as to who said what when it is easy enough to refer to the page to keep it straight.
        
        Have a swell time. That whole Rapture thing can’t come soon enough so we can be done with the whole lot of sanctimonious xian control nannies. Oh, oops, my bad, such ninny nannies won’t be going anywhere because they didn’t walk the walk. Still, it will be fun seeing how disappointed they will be when they are not sucked into the sky.
      - Philip Marks
        
        I Pray, I was wondering if you read this part of it:
        
        King James Bible
        “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret…”
      - Gallinipper87
        
        The majority of Christians only want to acknowledge the parts that are convenient to their lifestyle and whatever else they want to shove down the throats of anyone that is listening.
      - Philip Marks
        
        I know but I thought using the name “I Pray” on a public forum offered an opportunity that shouldn’t be missed, given that Jesus said to pray in secret, in the closet, and only god should know about it…
    - BryanCUFF
      
      I’ve read it all too and more than once which is why I don’t believe any of it.
    - BobSimonhouse
      
      Yes, please explain it. Does the Christian Bible direct we should not swear oaths at all?
  - Philip Marks
    
    It’s not necessary to read it all, just skim for the parts you like. Or google something you wish was in there, it’s all online now.
    - D_C_Wilson
      
      Any reading is too much effort for them.
  - Gallinipper87
    
    It changes a lot also depending on what version you read.
GammaRae

I have no problem with the freedom of evangelical Christians to believe what they believe; I will fight forever to ensure that they are never allowed to force their beliefs on others through law. And yes, there are places around the world where Christians are truly being persecuted; America is not one of them. Not being allowed to ram your beliefs down others’ throats is NOT ‘being persecuted.’ It’s called living in America under the First Amendment of our Constitution.
- gmanon
  
  Most children are from Christian parents and people fighting in courts to impose their belief system on our kids often do not even have children.
  You. It seems like an unidentified war against all our values.
  
  We do not appreciate all the TV and school propaganda bombarding our children with pornography, drugs, abortion, tattoos, homosexuality, the so called free spirit or Atheist movement.
  
  All we want is all that dirty propaganda out of our schools and our children. The bible has proved to be one of the best tools to stripe that away from our children. We want the freedom to get the Christian principles in schools where the majority of parents are Christians.
  
  That’s what democracy is supposed to be.
D. Alexander

Wanna bet those white Evangelicals watch FOX and listen to right wing hate radio?
- LatK
  
  Nah. I’d lose money.
Steven Skelton

I have violated my new policy of speaking my peace without engagement. If you all believe it isn’t okay to hate white Christians according to polite society….you are wrong, but that is your right.

Feel free to disagree….but I have much more important things to do than get in internet arguments.

Peace
- Xeknos
  
  I view it more as a bit of karmic rebalancing – Christians have been discriminating against all sorts of different folks for centuries, so I’m not entirely sure you guys can really cry fowl when the shoe’s on the other foot.
  - Steven Skelton
    
    So it’s okay to hate me because of what other people did a few hundred years ago?
    
    Asinine.
    - Xeknos
      
      No, I’m saying that their anger toward you is understandably justified. It’s on you to dig yourself and your people out of that hole.
    - http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole
      
      it’s even more okay to despise evangelicals for the crap they do now. Just take a look at what they’ve done in Uganda.
      
      In my view, they’re a blight on the planet because instead of minding their own business, they want to control the behavior and actions of others.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        Take a look at Joshua’s Army, Ted Cruz, and Sarah Palin. What wisdom is in their holy activities?
- Christopher Foxx
  
  “I have violated my new policy of speaking my peace without engagement. If you all believe it isn’t okay to hate white Christians according to polite society.”
  
  You might want to consider adopting a policy of actually reading what people are actually saying. Because I don’t really see most folks here saying it’s socially OK to hate which Christians. Rather, they’re explaining why folks don’t care for people who either a) hate them or b) try to force their views on them.
  
  You’re insisting on seeing “I don’t like people who try to force their views on me” as hate of all Christians as a class.
- Neal Quigley
  
  Steven,
  
  You really are proving the man’s point. The only person that is saying it is OK to hate white Christians, quite frankly, is you.
  
  What you seem to get mixed up is hating policies based on Christian beliefs being forced on others. If you don’t want to marry another man, awesome! You want to repress your own sexuality and live against your nature…well, let’s not say awesome, let’s say OK….but demanding that those rights be taken from others is what is wrong and is what is hated.
  
  In other words, no one hates Christians for being Christians. People hate Christians when they are a$$holes, and currently many of them are the loudest a$$holes in our nation. I think it is safe to say that it is OK to hate a$$holes a bit.
Hank

Wow! That’s staggering!! 53% of Americans, who are also Evangelical, believe Aetheists are either immoral or amoral!!

Nuuh Unhh! (Thanks for figuring that one out for us T.C.) :)
- Ashes Defacto
  
  The ironic part is that the American population where the largest % that claim to be religious is found in prisons.
  - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
    
    Unfortunately, and quite stupidly, a lot of judges and prison officials are giving earlier releases to people who go all holy roller. There is nothing easier to feign than piety and the recidivism numbers belie the point to this exercise. Florida is one of the worst on this account.
    
    By the same token, judges order people into AA, even though it requires “surrender to a higher authority, its numbers stink— it is only impressively effective in movies— and it’s a predators playground. Women should especially not be ordered to attend AA meetings.
    
    When the state starts acting on religiosity in these ways, it offends me. The Separation of Church and State should be crisp and clear, at all times when it comes to justice and civil rights.
- Burzghash
  
  The best part? If all the atheists left America, today, we’d lose 93% of the National Academy of Sciences, and less than 1% of the prison population.
  
  Hmm.
Jason E

One would think that having God on you’re side and a free pass to heaven would strengthen their resolve?
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  It does, it’s just that the evangelicals are historically thorns in other people’s sides and given the splintering built into their branch of Christianity, it tends to focus locally on opposing others. Individual churches can more easily become cults of their minister than sects that have more of an overall structure that individual church leaders have to adhere to.
  
  And the Christian evangelical right and the GOP have been lovers for over thirty years. These people VOTE. IN EVERY ELECTION. At some point, liberals need to stop bitching about the opposition as if they were an actual Leviathan and learn to vote wisely, in every fucking election.
  - LatK
    
    If it weren’t for you felonious grammar, I would agree with you.
Steven Skelton

I don’t know if I would call myself an evangelical, but I definitely fit the white and Christian part.

I don’t face a lot of discrimination in my life, but I am a part of the only group that it is socially acceptable to outright hate.

That sucks. It’s not any fun.
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  Evangelicals do too much hating themselves to garner sympathy from the objects of their hatred.
  
  boo fucking hoo
  - Steven Skelton
    
    One can always count on Felonious Grammar to add a little bit of racist hate to the conversation.
    
    The fact that greater society doesn’t give a shit how much you hate white Christians kind of proves my point.
    - WhittakerWalt
      
      Where was race mentioned in her comment to you?
      Are you perhaps… PLAYING THE RACE CARD?
    - Xeknos
      
      How was that racist? Evangelicals aren’t a race.
      - Steven Skelton
        
        FG has quite the history of opposing mine and other’s “mansplaining” and “whitesplaining.”
      - Xeknos
        
        Mansplaining and whitesplaining are generally considered insulting to the person you’re doing the “explaining” to. That sounds like a problem on your end, if I had to be honest.
      - Steven Skelton
        
        No. Those terms are nothing more than a way to devalue the opinion of the speaker based on nothing more than gender and race. It’s the functional equivalent of “shut up nigger,” a term that is (rightfully) abhorrent and not socially acceptable.
      - Xeknos
        
        I don’t agree. There’s nothing wrong with two people sharing an opinion on a subject. The issue begins when one person using their position of privilege to act condescending toward the other. That’s where “mansplaining” and “whitesplaining” come from.
        
        If you’re finding that these terms are being leveled toward you on a regular basis, I’d examine how you come across to other people.
      - Steven Skelton
        
        Well…I was wearing a short skirt. I was obviously asking for it.
      - Xeknos
        
        That isn’t even close and you know it.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        Oh. Hah. Aren’t you clever?
      - Steven Skelton
        
        Furthermore, her response proves my point. To her, it is okay to hate white evangelicals.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        It’s so sad to see people putting words into other people’s mouths that accuse them of being hateful, in order to exact the pity they appear to want.
      - Burzghash
        
        You are so adorably out of touch with reality.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        How do we women “mansplain”, Steve, that’s quite a conundrum.
      - Hank
        
        The entire post is pretty much about “white evangelicals”. The post makes them a “race”.
      - Xeknos
        
        Not even close.
      - Hank
        
        Disagree.
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        Um, yeah, but that’s a function of the largely racially segregated nature of fundamentalist Christians in the US, and the VAST differences between the mentality of, say, black Baptist congregations and conservative evangelical – overwhelmingly white – congregations. Don’t worry, if there ever comes a time when a critical mass of black churches are as obnoxious and sanctimonious as predominantly white Christian evangelicals tend to be, they’ll be considered assholes by a lot of people too.
      - http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole
        
        haha…….PERFECT!
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        Yep. See: Reverend Wright
      - http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole
        
        seriously?
        
        A religion does NOT = a race.
        
        As you should certainly know.
        
        Evangelicals are 99.9% white, are they not? Using the term “white” to describe the factual make-up of a specific group is not racist.
        
        In any case, white people have no business crying “racism”. And yes, I am white.
      - Hank
        
        Read the post. Read my comment. I did not say religion is a race. I said the post tries to make it racial, repeatedly describing his evangelicals as “white”.
    - Christopher Foxx
      
      “One can always count on Felonious Grammar to add a little bit of racist hate to the conversation.”
      
      Please point to exactly where Felonius said anything about race.
  - http://www.politicalruminations.com/ nicole
    
    word. word. word.
- Christopher Foxx
  
  “ I am a part of the only group that it is socially acceptable to outright hate”
  
  It’s certainly socially acceptable to large segments of the population to hate/discriminate against
  – gays
  – atheists
  – Muslims
  – women
  – etc.
  – etc.
  
  To claim you, as a white Christian, are a member of the only group it’s acceptable to hate is simply demonstrating the persecution complex the article above is commenting on.
  - Hank
    
    As evidenced by all the support Tim Tebow received as compared to say…..Jason Collins.
    - Jonny Overcat
      
      Tim Tebow was ostentatious and sanctimonious about his religious faith, THAT is what made him an object of so much scorn. Not to mention that his talents were so massively overhyped.
      - Hank
        
        Anything even REMOTELY resembling proof please?
        
        Two National Championships and a Heisman Trophy. How many of either have you won? Tim Tebow is the poster child for discrimination against “Christians”.
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        Oh go fuck a bucket of broken glass – Tebow shined in college football and then flailed in the pros. Even I, who doesn’t even follow football, know this. Sanctimonious, ostentatious public displays of piety come across like EXACTLY what they are, a bunch of showboating and a lame attempt at impressing people with how morally upright one is.
      - Hank
        
        Here. Let me help you with a translation:
        
        “No! There is no proof of anything I said. So the only thing I can do is respond in a crude, vulgar and insulting manner then sit back and congratulate myself thinking I’ve won!!”
        
        Maybe the answer is not every one is as shallow as yourself. Maybe some people actually have values they believe in and don’t just dump out garbage for like minded people to applaud.
      - Burzghash
        
        Oh shut up Hank. Nobody is impressed by your ability to publicly jerk off your ego.
      - Hank
        
        I’ll have to give you credit. That’s a bit more creative than the normal juvenile liberal insult.
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        Ah, “no proof” of anything I said, except of course the factual record. And where is Saint Tebow’s football career NOW? NFL teams really don’t give a damn about a person’s religious beliefs, they are solely focused on how a player performs on the field. Tebow didn’t deliver. He doesn’t play for any NFL team currently, and it seems unlikely that he ever will. But gee whiz, I guess none of that is “proof” to you, because the reality doesn’t match your fantasy.
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        Heh heh, yeah, I’m “shallow” for not agreeing with you that, despite the facts, the object of your lust, Tim Tebow, was driven out of the pros because of his ludicrously vapid and showy dip lays of his false piety. Defend him all you want, he still not going to let you fuck him. Give it up.
      - Hank
        
        No. You’re shallow because you’re stupid and just……well….shallow. And ignorant, vulgar comments like the one above pretty well prove that.
        
        Shallow and just plain nasty. I’m sure you’re proud.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        When one stands in the middle of a stadium on national television and points to God, one points at oneself.
        
        ~ ancient Chinese saying
      - LatK
        
        Matthew
        
        5″When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.6″But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
      - Burzghash
        
        Tim Tebow is the poster child for the christian persecution complex that ironically arises out of being a complete douchebag in public.
      - FedSec
        
        What does his football career have to do with his ostentatious displays of Christianity?
        
        Matthew 6:5-6
        
        And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
        
        Why don’t you try ACTUALLY READING that book you claim to revere?
      - Hank
        
        First, I didn’t say I “revere” anything. I’m just pointing out how hypocritical, biased and ignorant some of you are.
      - FedSec
        
        You don’t revere THE BIBLE? Ok, not a surprise since you clearly have no idea what it actually says.
        
        And you want people to believe that you’re a Christian. Pathetic.
      - Hank
        
        Your stupidity is really showing. I didn’t say I revered the Bible. YOU did. I didn’t say I was a Christian. YOU did.
        
        Based on the intellectual wasteland that is your commentary, I couldn’t care less what you do or don’t believe. I just simply point out where you are wrong, biased and hypocritical.
        
        And you keep proving me correct.
      - FedSec
        
        Wow. So now you want to lie and say you don’t believe in God? Because it’s either one or the other.
        
        Dummy.
      - Hank
        
        Oh boy!! This is fun. I LOVE to get the opportunity to educate less intelligent people!!
        
        Where did I say I believe in God?
      - FedSec
        
        Like I said, you don’t want my brand of honesty, shut the f*ck up and leave me alone. Otherwise, I will continue to call you names and insult you.
        
        It will probably produce palpitations in your poor, poor white Christian conservative racist, bigoted hateful heart.
        
        Deal with it.
      - Hank
        
        Communication challenged. Reading challenged. Comprehension challenged. The big Three!!
        
        Poor you.
      - FedSec
        
        I might agree with the first one, but the last two…that would be you.
        
        Most definitely you.
      - LatK
        
        Matthew 6:5-6
        
        5″When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.6″But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
      - LatK
        
        Jonny, you are absolutely correct.
        
        Matthew 6:5-6
        
        5″When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6″But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
      - Hank
        
        Somewhere in all you’ve written, you said “Showing is so much more effective than telling.”
        
        Except when it goes against whatever point you’re trying to make, so it seems.
      - FedSec
        
        When one displays a Christ-like life, others tend to become more receptive to the idea of Christianity.
        
        When one displays that one’s Christianity is all about one’s self (i.e., Tim Tebow), it’s obvious that one knows nothing about how Christ lived.
        
        F*ck that guy.
      - Hank
        
        I’d say your unnatural hatred of a man who did little more than kneel on the sidelines pretty much proves my point. Thank you.
      - FedSec
        
        I laugh because you think I hate Tebow. Life is too short spending it hating anyone.
        
        I don’t hate him. I hate is fake Christianity.
        
        See how that works?
    - merl1
      
      Every time he did his little fake prayer act he was violating Jesus’ commandment not to pray in public. He doesn’t sound like a Christian to me.
      - Hank
        
        Please refer me to Jesus’ “Commandment” not to pray in public.
      - Guest
        
        Not a commandment but a bible verse.
      - Guest
        
        …
      - Randy May
        
        A verse not a commandment. Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        That was one of many of the red letter texts that was the beginning of the end of me attending that last Southern Baptist Church my mother made me attend, though the main impetus was the almost always returns to the Old Testament.
      - Hank
        
        Okay. So it wasn’t a commandment.
        
        Jesus prayed in public. Led his followers in public prayer. And commanded His followers to go out and spread the word.
        
        Why is it you guys are perfectly okay with someone making a very public issue of his sexuality, but are uber offended by someone appearing to give thanks to God in public? And what about virtually everyone of them that thank God for their skills, talent and ability? Or that thank their mothers? ;-)
      - FedSec
        
        There’s a vast difference between witnessing about how God has blessed you and demonstrating how much holier you are than the rest of us.
        
        Tim Tebow and those like him do the latter. It makes them sanctimonious assholes.
      - merl1
        
        Matthew 6. I know not technically a “commandment” but I thought that “Christians” followed Jesus’ dictates.
      - Hank
        
        Jesus instructed his followers to spread the word. Jesus prayed in public. Jesus led others in prayer. I can’t say for sure, but I would think Jesus would say anytime, any place is good for prayer.
    - ShoeUnited
      
      Not because he was a christian. Because he was a shitty QB. He even was in college. Texas be damned it was the line that carried his ass. He threw his dragons on a wing and a prayer.
      - Hank
        
        Two National Championships and a Heisman Trophy suggest you might be wrong.
      - FedSec
        
        His no longer playing in the NFL and being reduced to a television morning show host is PROOF POSITIVE that ShoeUnited is exactly right.
      - Hank
        
        Sam’s isn’t playing in the NFL either and has been reduced to an NFL oddity. Do you draw any silly conclusions from that as well??
      - FedSec
        
        Sam’s is on the Dallas Cowboys practice team and what does that have to do with your inability to understand what Jesus expected from you moronic so-called Christians?
      - Hank
        
        As much as you ignoring the fact that Tim Tebow won two National Championships and the Heisman Trophy have to do with your opinion of his football talents.
        
        Or maybe as much as someone running around calling people ignorant, a**hole and morons while lecturing me on being a “Christian”.
        
        Funny.
      - FedSec
        
        Is he in the NFL? No? Then what’s your point?
      - Hank
        
        I can use your logic and contend the only reason he is in the NFL is because he made an issue of his sexuality because he knew his skills weren’t up to par.
        
        Or I could say Sams was drafted as an afterthought and to avoid the crying from the left. While Tebow was the 25th pick in the first round.
        
        Or you could just go ahead and agree I’m correct. It’s socially acceptable to discriminate against Tebow because he’s a Christian while simply not drafting a borderline Sams would have been decried as discriminating because of his sexuality.
      - FedSec
        
        No, it was socially acceptable to laugh at Tebow because he thought his ostentatious Christianity made him so much better than the rest of the college level players and then he went to the NFL and proved that gawd was not on his side when he got on the field and now he is nothing more than a morning show host.
        
        Fake Christianity will ALWAYS end up making the faker look like a fool.
        
        Case in point: you.
      - Hank
        
        And Sams’ ostentatious display of his sexuality was _______?
        
        (Wanted to make it easy for you.)
      - FedSec
        
        You mean that hot kiss between him and sexy boyfriend?
        
        Yowza!
      - FedSec
        
        And Tebow is a morning show host while Sam’s in on the Dallas Cowboys’ practice squad.
        
        Funny that.
      - LatK
        
        FedSec: There are many of us who are Christians, who do not belong to the right wing, who do not hate and persecute others, and who understand what we read in the Bible, so, for future reference, please continue to mention that “they are so-called Christians.”
  - Steven Skelton
    
    Sorry Christopher. I respect you a lot, but you are just plain wrong here. I don’t doubt that hate against those groups exist, but it is not socially acceptable. Openly hate any of those groups and their will be consequences dished out by society.
    
    Not so if one openly hates white Christians.
    - Christopher Foxx
      
      “I respect you a lot”
      
      Thank you.
      
      “I don’t doubt that hate against those groups exist, but it is not socially acceptable. Openly hate any of those groups and their will be consequences dished out by society.”
      
      Sure, in some cases. The recent events in Ferguson show consequences for their bigoted police department. But the situation there was tolerated (“socially accepted”) for a very, very long time before one incident became a tipping point.
      
      I’m sure there are groups you can point to that hate evangelicals and, by associate, even moderate Christians. But I don’t see evangelicals being pilloried in the mainstream press or legislated against or suffering under an obviously unfair judicial system.
      
      Talking heads on TV call gays deviants and are not run out of the studio, they make return appearances. If hate against gays isn’t socially acceptable, then why are there so many “defense of marriage” acts popular in state legislatures? Legislatures pass laws that force women to undergo unnecessary medical procedures while denying them access to necessary ones, and it’s socially acceptable for people to declare these laws good and proper. Society had no problem allowing “stop and frisk” to harass black folks, while I’ve yet to hear of any police department stopping or even just keeping an eye on folks on their way out of church (unless, of course, it was a mosque). And so on.
      
      I’m not denying that there are groups that despise evangelicals. But reality doesn’t support a claim that they are the only group hated by someone, or that the claim you’re making: that they are the only group it’s OK to hate.
      
      And your repeated insistence that evangelicals have it worse than anyone else just continues to support the original point that evangelicals see themselves as the only real victims of discrimination.
      - Steven Skelton
        
        I never said we had it worse or that we were the only real victims of discrimination. Other people have said that…and they would be wrong.
        
        My point is that white Christians (you could add male her if wanted) are the only group that can be hated without the greater society standing up defend them.
      - Christopher Foxx
        
        “My point is that white Christians (you could add male her if wanted) are the only group that can be hated without the greater society standing up defend them.”
        
        You’re posting a response to my comment, but clearly you haven’t read my comment. Or you would know I listed several examples of discrimination that society didn’t stand up to stop.
- Jonny Overcat
  
  It really works more like this – people tend to dislike/hate religionists of any stripe who consistently try to shove their religious beliefs down the throats of others, or force others to live according to their religious beliefs. If you’re one of those people, well then…If you’re not, then maybe stop trying to stick your foot into a shoe that doesn’t fit you. Several years ago I worked at a place with a young man who was going through a hyper-religious period – it turned out to be just a phase. He was CONSTANTLY prosthelytizing to all of us, who were virtually a captive audience. It got to the point that management had to pull him aside and direct him to cut the shit. He didn’t get what he had done wrong, despite having been told numerous times by numerous people that they were completely disinterested in his evangelical rantings. It’s likely he felt persecuted. The rest of us felt thoroughly imposed upon, and management’s shut the fuck up order to him lifted an unpleasant workplace burden from all of us. There was another guy there who was also a pretty hardcore evangelical who never prosthelytized and respected that most people aren’t really interested in constantly having the Bible shoved down their throats. He never, to my knowledge, caught any guff from anyone at that workplace about his religious beliefs, and got along well with others. See the difference? It’s notable that most mainline Protestant sects in the US – Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc. don’t receive the scorn that Bible thumping Baptists and evangelicals do, because by and large those sects tend to mind their own fucking business.
  
  If you REALLY want to know what “outright hate” based on religion is like, try talking to some people who belong to a religious minority in a majority evangelical area. It would really open your eyes as to why so many feel such scorn toward conservative evangelicals.
  - Steven Skelton
    
    Jesus commanded us to go out in the world and make disciples. It’s a shame that many forget that He commanded us to do a whole lot of other stuff as well.
    
    I’m not afraid to share my faith if the time is right, but the sum total of Christianity is a lot more than just being God’s salesman and adding to the flock.
    
    Besides, badgering someone isn’t even a good form of evangelism. I want everyone to know Christ…but no words can ever be as powerful actions. Feed the hungry. Clothe the naked. Accompany the lonely. Comfort the hurting. Bring peace to conflict. Those things are far more powerful than any tract on the four spiritual laws could ever be….and they are also equally commands from Jesus as the great commission is.
    
    I hope that young man you referred to learns that lesson.
    - Christopher Foxx
      
      “Jesus commanded us to go out in the world and make disciples.”
      
      And Mathew 6:6 says folks should keep their prayers to themselves and express their religion in private.
      
      Jonny Overcat gives an excellent example. Folks don’t have a hate for those who follow their religion passionately. It’s those who try to thrust their beliefs on others that are hated. You could replace toe person in Jonny’s example with a rabid fan of a pro sports team. IT’s not his being a fan that would bother folks, it’s his constantly, rudely pushing that fandom on others.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        My mother once expressed wonder at how quickly I dispatched evangelicals at the door in a neighborhood in which teen girls who didn’t shave their legs were either ‘filthy’ or Pentecost. She looked like she was going to have a heart attack when I told her that I told them we were Jewish. I’m sure that any image she may have had of a cross burning in our yard was not completely unjustified.
    - Jonny Overcat
      
      He got the message, but it took fearing for his job for him to get it, because civil requests for him to cut the shit, which morphed into strident demands, didn’t seem to work.
      
      Despite being non-religious myself, I will NEVER slam genuine efforts at religious charity. Never. The key word is “genuine”. Many churches routinely feed people, operate homeless shelters, operate transition programs, etc. I have nothing but respect for that sort of charitable work, and have donated to such efforts. I’d venture that it’s not too many people who have any problem with that sort of stuff. In the area where I live, however, it’s not evangelical churches, who build their “palaces of pride” grand edifices and preach prosperity gospel who are doing that kind of work in anything other than a token way, almost as though they’re just fulfilling some religious technicality.
      - Steven Skelton
        
        I attended a small mega church in St. Louis for a short period of time. I would say there were about 4k people every Sunday between the two services.
        
        The budget for feeding the poor was $1000 per year.
        
        They had missionaries all over the world. Jumbotrons and house lights and all the amenities….but they fed nearly no one.
        
        Disgusting.
        
        At least they weren’t doing the Osteen/Joyce Meyers thing where they reduce God to a giant slot machine and claim your wealth is a direct reflection of God’s satisfaction with you.
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        And therein lies the difference.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        I stopped attending an Episcopal church I liked (pretty, quiet, contemplative) after the thoughtful minister left and the new guy introduced himself with a lecture about what a shame it was for women to wear pants to church. That church spent a lot of money building a recreational center for upper-middle class kids who had better things to do. What a waste.
        
        But, my aunt who contributed a whole lot to that church, when confronted with a ratty looking teen-aged girl on the street who asked her for money, saying that she was hungry, that she needed to call her mother and she needed bus fare so she could go home; said, “O.K., let me take you out to lunch, then I’ll take you to the bus station so you can call your mother and I’ll buy you a bus ticket so you can get home.” She would have done it, but the girl said, “FUCK YOU!” so my aunt shook the dust off her sandals and moved on.
        
        Being charitable and not being a sucker is a good thing.
      - Christopher Foxx
        
        “small mega”
        
        Heh. ;-)
        
        “They had missionaries all over the world. Jumbotrons and house lights and all the amenities….but they fed nearly no one.
        Disgusting.”
        
        Agreed. My feelings echo yours and those so well put by Jonny. I have a great deal of respect for folks who do good works. And if it’s their religious convictions that lead them to it, fine. Tip o’ the hat to whatever has inspired them to do charity.
        
        But I have no tolerance for hypocrites who don’t follow the tenets of the faith they claim to value so highly, or for the self-righteously smug who think their beliefs make them somehow “better” than others or give them some right to make decisions for others.
        
        And to the extent folks who fit that description tend to be more evangelical than most then, yes, I do dislike evangelicals (the intensity varying in direct response to their hypocrisy and/or obnoxiousness). But it is the hypocrisy and smugness that drives my view of them, not the fact that they are religious.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        Isn’t “small mega church” an oxymoron?
      - FedSec
        
        One should stay as far away from mega churches as possible. There is a reason why Jesus lived a life of poverty. If your pastor lives a more prosperous lifestyle than his flock, he is ripping them off.
    - BryanCUFF
      
      I wish more Christians thought like you do. Although I think you can just work on feeding the hungry. clothing the naked. accompanying the lonely, comforting the hurting and bringing peace to conflict without believing in the supernatural, if you are going to believe those things having bigger priorities than just converting people is a better way to go.
      - LatK
        
        BryanCUFF: You are correct. If you live your life as a Christian, you don’t need to try to convert anyone as your lifestyle will do it for you (and, there is a higher power). I used to be a vendor and I was truly blessed. There were days when I would outsell all the other vendors put together, but I helped everyone I could. When a vendors child died in another city, and he was trying to get her home, I handed him a check. When another vendor’s husband left her with two young children and no money, I gave her enough of my stock to see her through. I could tell story after story, but I’m sure you get the picture. I was so blessed that it was amazing even to me and I was very, very aware that I was being blessed and that the wonders flowing in were not through my being wonderful, or the best at what i did or any of those adjectives., and, one day, I looked up and all of the vendors I associated with were going to church, reading the Bible and praising God, trying to become as blessed as I was, so, you are absolutely right. Showing is so much more effective than telling.
  - Ashes Defacto
    
    There’s a line about vegans vs. vegetarians that goes something like this; A vegetarian is a person who doesn’t eat meat. A vegan is a person who doesn’t eat meat who thinks no one else should either.
    
    You’ll never guess which one invites scorn and ridicule from others who don’t share their beliefs.
    - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
      
      Actually, a vegan is a person who doesn’t eat any meat products. There are vegetarians who will eat eggs or dairy products or will eat both.
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        The unfortunate reality that Ashes Defacto is highlighting is that far, far too many vegans are smug crusaders who, much like the sanctimonious evangelical Christians that piss people off so much with their attitudes, really do seem to want to force people to adopt their choices, like it or not. I’ll never slam someone for being a vegan, but I’ll go balls out gangbusters to slam some asshat who wants to force others to do as they do and think as they think. Lots of vegans fit very neatly into that category.
      - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
        
        Oh. I know. Liberal Foodies make me want to scream, “YOU SHOULD BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT OTHERS GETTING ENOUGH TO EAT!
      - Jonny Overcat
        
        Oh go fuck yourself, if I address a specific point without mentioning another point, that doesn’t mean I don’t care about that other point.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        That’s true but Ashes Defacto still makes a valid point. People hate the “Evangelical” part of “Evangelical Christian” more than they hate the “Christian” part. I don’t care what nonsense someone believes as long as they don’t impose those beliefs on me. A secular government doesn’t impose atheism on those who believe it just makes it safe to not believe. I may (and do) think a lot of what Evangelicals believe is stupid but as long as they keep it to themselves they can think what they want.
- merl1
  
  yeah, right. boo hoo.
- D_C_Wilson
  
  but I am a part of the only group that it is socially acceptable to outright hate.
  
  So you’re an atheist then.
  - http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
    
    Ahem, D_C_, you think Zimmerman could have shot a white atheist and walked away like he did after killing an unarmed black teenager?
    - D_C_Wilson
      
      That wasn’t the question, but I would say that a black teenager has a better chance of becoming president than a white atheist would.
      - LatK
        
        I would say that a white atheist had a much better chance of living to maturity than a black male teenager.
- ThisMicah
  
  Poor fucking baby.
- CripesAmighty
  
  Res ipsa loquitur.
- Leigh Tatum
  
  you think YOU’RE the only group that’s socially acceptable to hate??? Try being Muslim, IN ALABAMA
  then talk to me about how people hare Christians
  I am routinely followed, harassed and when it comes to healthcare, ignored
  I’ve been turned away from doctors offices for not being one of the people its “socially acceptable to hate”. I’ve been assaulted, threatened and terrorized for just being Muslim
  But no worries, I won’t allow the terrorists to win
  I will continue to live my life the way I wish, and I will continue to live in the place of my birth
  You can continue to fantasize about how White Christians are being persecuted
  it is after all a free country and you are entitled to be wrong
phreethink

Methinks you doth oversimplify. And religion-bash, maybe?

I do not agree with the statement: ” . . . evangelical Christians — and let’s emphasize that since that is after all the majority religious group in the country.”

While Christianity is the majority religion, evangelicals are not a majority in the country. Evangelicals are not even a majority of Christians in the U.S. angelical. Other statistics at Pew show that Catholics and mainline Protestants combined outnumber evangelicals, even without including historically black churches.

Further, the evangelicals category would include a large subset of the most radical fundamentalist Christians in the U.S. who want to create (they would falsely claim “return to”) a “Christian Nation.” This really means that they want to use the force of law to impose their particular brand of Christianity on the rest of us. Not surprisingly, anyone outside that group opposes them, and that makes them feel “persecuted.”

But that is simply an outgrowth of their own extremism. Extremists usually feel persecuted because the moderate majority does not agree with and opposes their extreme views. Indeed, leaders of these extremists feed the persecution complex as a means of maintaining control over the group, not to mention keeping the money flowing in to fight the supposed persecution. I mean, how long after Robertson’s comments about the Air Force oath did the ask for money occur?

But don’t equate all of Christianity, or even all of Evangelical Christians with the extremists who feel persecuted because people oppose their attempts to impose their version of Christianity on the whole nation. That would be like equating ISIL and the Taliban with all of Islam.
- http://www.facebook.com/felonious.grammar Felonious Grammar
  
  Of course evangelical preachers are going to rend their garments and tear out their hair as memberships drops— that’s the gravy train, right there. At times, new church membership and attendance shoots up, like after the attacks of 9/11/01. Then in a short time it shoots right back down again. Whatever people say in phone interviews (and of course, people are going to want to appear to be more devout to strangers) most people don’t go calling on God and working themselves up over what the bible says regularly. And a lot of people who do go to church go primarily for the fellowship, which is about as normal as human activity gets.
- ShoeUnited
  
  What about not combined? I know of several protestants groups that don’t get along with catholic ones.
i_a_c

That’s the Christian Right for you. Fox News and right wing radio has them trained to believe that they are the most oppressed beings in this country; that all their problems are caused by Obama/blacks/immigrants/liberals/whatever.

The “party of personal responsibility” that the GOP likes to brand itself as is a myth; they seem to be doing the most fingerpointing anymore.
- danny floridacracker
  
  have you ever heard white christians blame blacks /liberals/or immigrants for thier personal or professional failures? i cant seem to remember any white versions of Al Sharpton or a certain black reverend who admitted spitting in white peoples food in the restaurant where he worked funny way to say thank you for coming to the business and spending your money so i can get a paycheck i have worked with and for people of all shapes sizes and colors do not remember hating them on payday no matter how low the pay was of course i grew up in a country where you can quit your job if you hate your employer or want to to work in a more friendly environment this sounds racist and it probably is but there are many immigrants who come to this country and rely on family friends and fellow countrymen already established here to help you dont like white people dont work for white people you dont like chinese people dont work for chinese people but out of simple common decency and respect for yourself and others why lower yourself to whining complaining blaming and spitting in peoples food???
  - ShoeUnited
    
    “have you ever heard white christians blame blacks /liberals/or immigrants for thier personal or professional failures?” Yes.
  - SmilingAtheist
    
    Sit down & Relax…… maybe light up a joint & take a few hits. Other why’s , your head is going to exlode
  - JamieHaman
    
    White Christians do blame others for everything all the time. And they act, speak, and think like hypocrites, by totally forgetting that bit about loving the neighbor as thyself.
    The rest of us see it every time that so called Christians scare kids on buses at the border, that so called Christians harass, scare and kill women (& Doctors) at abortion clinics, that pass laws forbidding same sex marriage, or adoption of children by same. We see it in towns and cities where the homeless are banned from being fed, from sleeping on a porch, from the poor having food stamps cut, all of that. Then the so called Christians have the nerve to cry about being discriminated against.
    I for one wish these jerks would act out the part about taking care of the poor, the homeless, the hungry, and stfu about all the rest.
    - Hank
      
      So what you are saying is if they thought and acted like you want them to, rather than trying to be true to their own belief set, they would be alright?
      - FedSec
        
        No, we would rather they acted as…you know…JESUS COMMANDED.
        
        Isn’t that what Christianity is SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT?
      - Hank
        
        So, are you saying Christ “commanded” them to accept abortion, homosexuality and homosexual unions?
      - FedSec
        
        No, Christ commanded you to do unto others as you would have them do unto you and you ignorant Christians can’t seem to get that through your thick heads.
        
        If you Christians actually became representative of what
        Christ ACTUALLY TAUGHT, the rest of us would like you a-holes a bit more.
      - Hank
        
        You are really just being argumentative and not making much sense.
        
        Ignorant? A**holes?? You really know how to stimulate an intelligent exchange of ideas.
        
        The problem with people like you is you think everyone has to think as you do. There are no “Good” Christians. You’re simply ridiculous. To you, Christian=A**hole. Christian=Ignorant.
        
        Good luck with that line of thought.
      - FedSec
        
        Like I said, f*ck you fake Christians, the vast majority of whom vote Republican. You are vile ignorant morons and deserve nothing more than the world’s undying enmity.
        
        How’s that?
      - Hank
        
        Well that settles that! You won this discussion.
      - FedSec
        
        Thank you! Now f*ck off. You bore me.
      - JamieHaman
        
        Well Played Fed Sec, well played.
      - Hank
        
        And pretty much the extent of his ability.
      - JamieHaman
        
        LOL, Really Hank so what you’re saying is that you don’t mind if homeless people aren’t fed, or allowed to sleep on a porch, and it’s all ok with you if a doctor is shot to death in his church. You don’t mind if hundreds of teen boys commit suicide every year, because they can’t talk about their problems, because the church they attend has told them for years they are sinners, abominations, disgusting and more.
        I know that because your first response to me ignored all of the points I made, and accused me of being in essence willing to impose my views on them. Fed Sec just called you on it before I got to it.
        He called it right too. Love thy neighbor, thy gay neighbor, the straight neighbor, the homeless neighbor, the hungry neighbor, the drug addicted, alcoholic neighbor, the Muslim, Jewish, or Buddhist, or whatever HUMAN neighbor. All the f*ing neighbors.
        Of course, you can stfu, and say not one single word about being a Christian. Because the people who don’t love their neighbors, well, news flash, they aren’t Christian, they are liars.
      - Hank
        
        I’ve said nothing you’ve attributed to me. Why should I engage you simply to disprove negatives?
        
        And Fed Sec communicates like a 6 year old. He couldn’t call me on anything if I sent him certified notice first.
      - JamieHaman
        
        Your silence is assent.
      - Hank
        
        I bet you win all your arguments with that philosophy. You say something so stupid and so wrong and erroneous that someone just refuses to dignify it with a response. So you declare yourself the winner!!
      - LatK
        
        But, if you read my replies to Fed Sec, you would see that I could call you on it as nothing you say adheres to the teachings of Christ.
      - Hank
        
        I think I could very well say the same about you based on what you’ve actually written here. While you accused me based on YOUR set of assumptions.
      - LatK
        
        FedSec: I am glad you qualified them as ignorant Christians as some of us truly love the Lord and attempt to live our lives according to his teachings, so please don’t condemn all Christians for the pretenders in our midst.
      - FedSec
        
        Trust me, I don’t. I would have to condemn my mother and sisters if I did. I know the face of true Christianity. These conservative fake-Christians are NOT it.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        Christians can feel however they want about abortion, homosexuality and homosexual unions. It doesn’t matter what their church says about it. What matters is the law says they can’t enforce their beliefs on others.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        Also its called “marriage” not homosexual union.
      - Hank
        
        Oh?? So now you’re trying to “force” me to call something I certainly do not recognize as a “marriage” exactly that??
        
        YOU can call same sex unions anything you want. But they aren’t and never will be a “marriage” in the traditional sense.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        It is called marriage because that is what the law calls it. Your opinion doesn’t come into play here. The battle has been fought. You lost.
      - Hank
        
        You can pass a law calling a spoon a dump truck if you want to. I’ll probably keep on calling it a spoon. You are defending the right to discriminate against people that don’t agree with you.
        
        I’m not trying to stop you from believing anything you want. And you can pass all the laws you want. I will obey the laws. I will disagree with your beliefs and I will hold my own beliefs and never be made to feel guilty about them.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        I don’t care what you believe. I only care that you don’t impose your religious beliefs on others. As long as you obey the law we’ll be fine. in time those who share your beliefs will die off and it won’t be an issue. its already happening.
        
        I’m defending the right of others to not have you impose your will on them. Don’t like abortion, don’t have one. Don’t like gay marriage don’t get gay married. That is the extent of your power in these situations. If you want to argue with the law or try to change it you’re welcome to do that as well. That’s how democracy works but don’t be surprised to find that fewer and fewer people are standing alongside you.
        
        Don’t misunderstand me. I think your beliefs are very stupid and very dangerous but you’re entitled to them just as a racist is entitled to his foolish beliefs but the minute you try to impose your foolishness on others I’ll be ready to fight you. And I’ll win.
      - Hank
        
        Honestly, I don’t need your approval for anything. Very pompous and arrogant of you to insinuate I might.
        
        On that note, there have been about 56 million+/- abortions since Roe v Wade. What about all those rights that never got a chance??
      - BryanCUFF
        
        a fetus isn’t a human being. End of discussion.
      - Hank
        
        That’s your belief and I don’t agree with it. That IS the discussion.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        You don’t understand science and biology. This isn’t a matter of belief
      - Hank
        
        Several hundred years ago science believed the Earth was flat. Fifty years ago, science said a new ice age was imminent. Just a few decades ago, biology taught you could electro shock mental patients into sanity. Or do invasive brain surgery to cure them.
        
        What I do understand about science and biology is that it is ever changing and advancing.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        I might sound arrogant but that’s only because I’m smarter than you. Nothing personal.
      - Hank
        
        Oh no problem. There’s a whole bunch of people smarter than me. I’m just not convinced you’re one of them and I’m sure you understand personal evaluations generally tend to be favorable.
        
        I’m just not sure what your problem is with all that derision just because I don’t think the same as you?
      - LatK
        
        Hank: I see you don’t discuss the millions and millions of abortions before Roe vs Wade or the millions of women who died from having butchers with hangers destroy their insides. That’s what i don’t like about people like you, you only want to discuss one side of the story. As a Christian, I don’t believe in gay marriage or abortion, but, as a Christian, I also know it is none of my business as God will not need my help on judgement day as he gave us all free will and the right to make whatever choices we desire and i don’t have to answer for anyone besides my self. Guess what, neither do you.
      - Hank
        
        Which is pretty much what I have said consistently through my comments. Perhaps you should read more and judge less.
        
        Matthew 7:1-3
      - Hank
        
        But the law allows those others to force their beliefs on Christian Evangelicals. Which pretty much proves they are discriminated against.
        Thank you.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        You obviously don’t understand what discrimination means. It isn’t discrimination to tell a racist that he can’t refuse to hire someone because they are black. It also isn’t discrimination to tell Evangelical Christians that they have to respect the rights of gay people to marry and the rights of women to make their own choices in regard to abortion.
      - Hank
        
        And what makes you think I don’t respect their rights?? I just think they (and you) should respect my right to hold true to my own beliefs and to disagree.
        
        I would like to drive 150 mph on the interstate. I don’t because it’s against the law and I respect the law. But I would still like to.
      - BryanCUFF
        
        If that is true (You’d like to drive 150 mph on the interstate) than you really are more foolish than you’ve already shown yourself to be.
      - Hank
        
        As I think you’re foolish to want to yank unborn babies from the womb and kill them or to marry your best friend, Bill. You want to have your rights while depriving me of mine??
      - FedSec
        
        So exactly when did the law force you or anyone else in your family to get an abortion and/or gay married? What…it didn’t?
        
        Then it’s NONE OF YOUR GODDAMNED BUSINESS.
        
        Evangelicals have such a persecution complex.
      - Hank
        
        But people holding Evangelical Christian beliefs are your business?
      - FedSec
        
        When those Evangelicals attempt to have THEIR beliefs enshrined INTO LAW, yes, not only is it my business, it becomes EVERYONE’S business.
        
        You are welcome to worship any way you like. DO NOT attempt to force me or anyone else to worship as you do.
      - Hank
        
        I’m just left with nothing else to say. Out of reluctance to use more direct language, I’ll simply say you really just aren’t very bright.
      - FedSec
        
        Can’t refute the argument because you know it’s the truth.
        
        You Evangelicals want everyone to worship as you do. You are authoritarian assholes and may God spit on you when he returns.
        
        Now go eat a bag of dicks.
        
        Thank you!
      - LatK
        
        No what FedSec is saying is that you haven’t a clue as to who Christ is and what he would do. You want to mention abortion, homosexuality and etc., but you leave out your worship of the rich and the dollar. You omit wanting to harm and get rid of all those that differ from you. You look down on those less fortunate than you. People work two minimum wage jobs trying to survive in this day and age and you vilify them and say that you don’t want people spending YOUR money. The old, the weak and the lame and halt have no insurance and are unable to get in and you do everything in your power to insure that they suffer and die because they can’t affor care. In a period where 25,000,000 middle class jobs disappeared from America’s shores, instead of wanting to help your fellow Americans, you want them under your heel so you can continue the job of totally crushing them. You don’t want women to take birth control pills, yet you despise them when they have yet another child they can’t care for, and don’t want to offer them aid, and, to add insult to injury, you pretend to do this in Christ’s name. You should be ashamed and embarrassed to allow his name to fall from your hypocritical lips.
      - Hank
        
        Ok. I was pretty much with you and interested in your comments up to here. But you went off the rails with this screed.
        
        After a hate and lie filled screed like that, I’m not sure you should be lecturing anyone about Christ. At least not the Christ I’m familiar with. Both Biblically and Historically.
      - LatK
        
        If you want to call yourself a Christian, you have to follow all of Christ’s teachings not just the ones you pick and choose. I do not believe in same sex marriages or abortion, but I also know that Christ said to feed the children and the widows, He cited the Good Samaritan, He said to do unto others. When you pretend to follow Christ because you are against abortion and etc, but then turn around and persecute others because they are poor, homeless or have no money, then you are fooling yourself if you pretend to be a Christian. It is all or nothing, not deciding piecemeal which teachings you are going to follow. Please prove that anything I said was a lie. You can’t, and it is an embarrassment to all Christians to have to listen to the hate filled rhetoric that emanates from the right wing. I never thought I would live to see a day where so-called Christians acted in the manner that they do. The Bible says that it is the job of all Christians to correct their brothers, and believe me, the current so called Moral Majority and Christian Right certainly need correcting as they are an anathema to everything that Christ taught, or to put it in terms that a two year old can understand, “Where is the Love?” “Where is the love?” I keep looking for it, and, no where in the current atmosphere can I find any of the love that Christ talks about. Christ did not tell those who truly love him to be afraid to speak out, to try to be politically correct or to try to appease others. The truth is the light, and the church had better get its act together as they do more to alienate people than they do to draw them into Christ’s love. The Bible tells all Christians to correct their brothers and sisters when they see them going astray, and you can call it or me what you want, but the vileness emanating from today’s so-called Christians is enough to make one throw up and they need to stop trying to used the Bible to back up their hate and self-righteousness. You all need to take heed of Matt. 7: 13-14 and quit fooling yourselves. “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Christianity is not based on hate and people trying to “force” others to see what they see. Christianity means living your life in such a way that others want what you have and want to follow you to see how they can get it too. So, think what you will, i know who I am and how i live my life and I know that hypocrites are exactly that and nothing more, and, in fact, they do more damage than they do good, as rather than drawing people to Christ, they send them scurrying the other way..
      - Hank
        
        There you to judging again. At no time have I claimed to be a Christian.
        
        But since YOU seem to be quite the expert, does the Bible say anything about the “Holier than thou” group? I seem to remember something about a Pharisee……
      - Hank
        
        You’ve lost integrity and legitimacy with me.
      - FedSec
        
        And that right there is the perfect example of what is so wrong with you Evangelicals. You spend so much time trying to control other people’s lives, that you cannot recognize your own un-Christ-like behavior and the evil you perpetuate throughout the world. You sit in judgement of everyone else as if your opinion of someone else matters.
        
        YOU DON’T MATTER.
        
        Christ commanded that you focus on easing the suffering of the poor and needy and downtrodden. Someone else’s abortion, someone else’s homosexuality DOESN’T MATTER. Someone else’s sin DOESN’T MATTER. That is between that person and their God.
        
        There are people who need clothing, shelter, food, people in jail who need someone to talk to, someone to listen. THOSE PEOPLE MATTER. That’s where Evangelicals need to focus, NOT ON SHIT THAT DOESN’T AFFECT THEM. That is what Jesus Christ commanded.
        
        Get it now?
      - Hank
        
        I really hate to leave you with your own, personal “Emily Lattela” moment, but I’m not an Evangelical. Nor am I religious. So much for your comment.
      - FedSec
        
        Yes, so you’ve said before. Yet you continue to defend the Evangelicals.
        
        Perhaps you’re just a racist bigot instead?
      - Hank
        
        Well. I guess anything is better than being a foul mouthed, ill informed nut job such as yourself.
      - FedSec
        
        Awwww, you’ve hurt my fee-fees.
        
        Grow up, you loser.
      - FedSec
        
        Preach it, Latke!!
        
        May I ask the faith in which you worship?
      - LatK
        
        What she is saying is that you have no concept of Christ and/or his teachings. Why don’t you try believing in Christ and his instructions and leave the hate behind. You’d be much better off.
      - Hank
        
        I’m sorry, but I don’t see her comment that way. And I’m not sure where you see hate, as opposed to recognition and acknowledgement in my comment. Would you mind explaining your position?
  - FedSec
    
    “have you ever heard white christians blame blacks /liberals/or immigrants for thier personal or professional failures?”
    
    You Christian Tea Partiers are famous for blaming everyone else for your problems.
    
    One of your cohorts posted this above:
    
    “And one of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ “The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:28-31)”
    
    You guys have YET to display any of that “love thy neighbor as yourself” stuff over the course of the last 30 years. It’s because you really don’t believe it, isn’t it?
    - danny floridacracker
      
      christians have not displayed any of that” love thy neighbor as yourself “stuff in the last 30 years . Heard anything about the ebola epidemic ? Know who the doctors and nurses are ?Christians risking and sometimes losing their lives.Hatred is warping your mind. P.S. not a member of tea party do not have cohorts.
      - LatK
        
        The Ebola epidemic is small stuff compared to the treatment the right wing metes out to all of those that are different from them. The vilification and nastiness the spews forth from the so-called Christian Right and the Moral Majority hurts my heart as you pretend to do these things in the name of Christ. I give you Matthew 7:21-23. Perhaps it will open your eyes and unharden your heart. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
      - FedSec
        
        Why would you believe the self-less acts of one Christian gives a pass to the rest of you assholes? You have to live Christ’s teachings for yourself…like
  - LatK
    
    I have never heard a real Christian play the blame game that you are trying to play. The Bible says to treat your neighbor as you would yourself. Perhaps if you and those like you stopped vilifying and started loving, things would change. In the meantime, please do not lay your nonsense at Jesus’ feet as it does not belong there. All I will say to you is that I forgive you and your ancestors for the indignities you have placed on the heads of others and pray that he softens your heart and opens your mind and lets you realize that despite mentioning his name, you have done nothing but spout hatred and blame, actions that certainly do not fit Christ’s criteria of how we are to treat one another.