15 Reasons Why Rand Paul is Definitely Not a Friend to the Left

Yesterday on his MSNBC telecast, Ronan Farrow, like too many other seemingly naive members of his generation, confessed to being a fan of Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) in spite of the fact that Farrow, seconds earlier, aired a clip of the senator vocally endorsing the idea of “traditional marriage” and attributing the redefining of marriage as the leading cause of poverty in the U.S.

We’ll circle back to the surge of fanboy admiration for the would-be Republican presidential frontrunner, but first some history.

The ascendancy of Rand Paul might be the one true barometer for the mainstreaming of the political fringes. If you recall, as I do, the previous two presidential elections, you might remember how Paul’s father, former-Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), was widely considered to be the wacky wild-card candidate during the GOP primaries in 2008 and 2012. As the analogue to, say, Dennis Kucinich on the Democratic side, no one other than his legion of doomsday-bunker-squatting, money-bombing John Galt disciples seriously regarded Ron Paul as a serious candidate and therefore laughed his hopeless candidacy.

In just about every Republican debate, whenever Ron Paul was humored with a question or two and subsequently filled his time with fantastical libertarian tall-tales from aboard his huffing, puffing, whimsical steam-powered jalopy, the other candidates along with with most of the audience-members could barely contain their snickering and smirking.

But just two short years following the 2012 primaries, Rand Paul, who’s generally the same political creature as his father is widely regarded as a serious contender for the GOP nomination. This is how deeply into the pits of screwball insanity the political discourse has descended. The Son of Weirdo Ron Paul is the real deal.

And it seems as if this surge of relevancy for Rand Paul in the presidential sphere is partly fueled by easily-deceived, privileged voters on the left who are climbing aboard an all new whimsical wheezy jalopy, evidently unaware that Rand Paul is an opportunist who’s views are generally anathema to progressivism. Among those naive leftists are Ronan Farrow and Ralph Nader in spite of his horrendous views on an entire roster of critical issues, many of which are torn from his father’s mystical playbook.

Simply because he occasionally tosses a few token scoops of chum to the left (then quickly backpedals), the left appears to be more than willing to ignore the following positions:

1) Rand Paul opposes gun control measures and voted with his party to filibuster the Manchin-Toomey amendment, which would’ve merely expended background checks to include internet sales and gun shows.

2) Rand Paul, like Ron Paul before him, has repeatedly objected to key provisions of the Civil Rights Act.

3) Rand Paul is opposed to abortion, even in cases of rape and incest. Just because he’s expressed an openness to a life-of-the-mother exception doesn’t make him a hero.

4) Rand Paul, as mentioned earlier, believes that redefining traditional marriage is the leading cause of poverty, rather than a long list of other poverty-creating economic factors.

5) Rand Paul voted against the re-authorization of the Violence Against Women Act.

6) Rand Paul wants to cut the corporate tax rate in half and attacked Obama’s “you didn’t build that” quote, which was widely taken out of context.

7) Rand Paul is a fan of paleoconservative conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, and has appeared on Jones’ show numerous times. He’s also endorsed his share of wild conspiracy theories.

8) Rand Paul proclaimed that the scientific consensus behind climate change isn’t “conclusive.”

9) Rand Paul has repeatedly voted to de-fund and repeal the Affordable Care Act, and would very likely do so as president. He’s also spread “horror stories” about the law in Kentucky even though his state’s exchange is one of the best in the nation.

10) Rand Paul famously filibustered the president’s drone policies, but later suggested that the government could use a drone to gun down a criminal who just robbed a liquor store. He suggested we should use drones against the Taliban.

11) Rand Paul supports the partial privatization of Social Security and once called the program a “Ponzi scheme.” He also referred to Medicare as “socialism.”

12) Rand Paul supports the flat tax.

13) Rand Paul marketed in the widely debunked “Obamaphone” myth, stating: “For those who are struggling, we want you to have something infinitely more valuable than a free phone, we want you to have a job and a pathway to success.”

14) Rand Paul supports Voter ID laws, saying there’s “nothing wrong” with them.

15) Rand Paul, in addition to a series of racially-questionable associates, is a supporter of both states’ rights and nullification, archaic tent-post beliefs held by neo-Confederates.

Should I go on?

Just because Rand Paul falls in line with Glenn Greenwald on NSA and one or two other far-left issues doesn’t mean he’s a golden-egg-laying transformational candidate who will bridge the left/right divide. He’s more of a Trojan Horse than anything else and his ascendancy to the White House would be extraordinarily bad on numerous levels, the least of which happens to be the fact that he’s an undisciplined political mess. On nearly every position, he often says one thing, then is forced to clarify. Those of you who “stand with Rand” on drones, see if you can ascertain where the hell he stands the issue from one quote to another. And this is one of his best-known positions.

Support from anyone outside of the usual Paulite subculture should be regarded as a shibboleth for the politically ignorant and unserious, especially on the left where there’s a tendency to be smitten by wackos who trip and fall onto buzzwords like “drones” or “Snowden.” Liberal overlap is completely incidental and cosmetic. Where liberal opposition to drones is a feature of anti-war pacifism, and liberal opposition to NSA surveillance is a feature of civil libertarianism, Rand Paul’s opposition to these policies grows directly from an anti-government, nullification, states’ rights posture. And left is clearly being suckered into supporting it.

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  • Poet Tribble

    #votepoet facebook.com/votepoet

  • Natalie Miller

    John Walsh had to resign for plagierizing so should Rand Paul he cant get away with stealing words.

  • 1933john

    Rand would have to stand on his Daddy’s
    shoulders just to kiss Obama’s ass, both
    metaphorically and physically.
    Actually, at this point in time, the same
    goes for the entire GOP herd.
    Scratch “herd”, make that “flock”.

  • Tort Master

    Rand Paul’s hair is so obviously fake that people are starting to call it a “One-Pay.” But, his positions are what make him unelectable as President. Like his father, a presidential run is only a money-making grift. That’s how Crazy Ron went from a backwoods newsletter to now taking $50k per speaking engagement.

  • HilaryB

    For some reason, I’m reminded of this every time I think of Rand Paul:

    http://youtu.be/SbnEy_U9pYk

    • Kerry Reid

      Me too.

  • D_C_Wilson

    Somehow, I think the points Bob raised will have as much impact on Randy’s fans as Ron’s racist newsletter had on his liberal fans.

  • Kerry Reid

    Just gonna leave this one here for future reference…

    http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

    • spiderbucket

      You will need the talking points I’m sure.

  • Kerry Reid

    I had to run errands and go to the gym, so just wondering: Are the distinguished members of the PUMA Gentlemen’s Auxiliary still making dark threats about taking their votes and going home to punish us for their hurt fee-fees?

    • feloniousgrammar

      They’ve gone deeper into convolution.

  • stacib23

    Am I the only person who has had this thread ruined by spiderbucket? Holy fuck.

    • ak1287

      Not just Spider bucket. There were about 5 people who ruined the thread; not because they disagreed, but because they were horrible at debating.

      • feloniousgrammar

        Shit happens. If you want to redeem it, knock yourself out.

        And “debating” is not the only acceptable or useful way to discuss issues of political power and governance.

        • ak1287

          When you’re discussing for the purpose of demonstrating the merits or lack thereof of different political theories, it is more or less a debate. And I hold that, in general, debates should never become personal and the participants should avoid using rhetorical fallacies in their presentation.

          That being said, I will readily admit that four of the five people who made this discussion thread toxic were Spider bucket, because of his rampant use or hyperbole and straw-men; egallorojo, for personally attacking the author and making unsubstantiated claims re the ‘police state'; Don for doing his usual practice of being, what I can only assume to be, willingly obtuse about everything; and Simon Saez, for drive-by posting nonsense. It’s not a coincidence that all of these people are pro-Paul. The fifth made an error in judgment and has since apologized.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            spiderbucket seems to have studied from the Dennis School of Disengenuous Asshat Debating.

          • condew

            Actually, Spiderbucket did quite well. The dishonest rhetorical attacks he endured reduced my opinion of several regulars; including Kerry Reid and Ragina Wanassa, who until now I held in very high regard. Feloniusgrammer certainly showed her true, racist colors and wallowed in her victimhood, but that is just who she is.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            No. spiderbucket acted in a very dickish manner today, the way Dennis does here on a consistent basis. He wasn’t interested in debate but rather to try and get under everyone’s skin here.

          • condew

            I think spiderbucket was bursting the liberal bubble with a bit of humor and a lot of truth; and as reality has a liberal bias, it’s good to get yanked back into it. As I am no friend to libertarians yet agreed with much of what he said, I see a lot of danger made visible. It is so easy to set liberals bickering among themselves, and so easy to pat ourselves on the back for being so inclusive, while actually being quite unfriendly and exclusive.

          • Victor_the_Crab

            I fail to see your point. You think spiderbucket’s obnoxious trolling was effective, but the people who call him out for his behaviour are awful? What an assbackward way of looking at it.

            A lot of people on the liberal/progressive side are fed up with the constant attacks, underhanded actions, and just snide behavior of the Republican party and their supporters, who would like nothing better than to see their vision of America these past 30 plus years continue endlessly and with a greater gap between the halves and have nots. Liberals and progressives are trying to make things better for everyday people, like the ACA, and all the right ever does is go after liberals and progressives and viciously attack them for even daring to improve people’s lives. These are the people, like Rand Paul, that spiderbucket throws his support behind.

            Why should any of us have to respect the opinions of him and Dennis, when it’s clear they just pop in here and don’t show an ounce of respect for ours? If you can’t wrap your head around that, then it’s you who has the problem.

          • Regina Wanassa

            I’m not technically a Liberal, so if you’d be so kind as to edify me – does the Liberal idea of inclusion mean to deny or scrap your first principles so as not to “exclude” or to “tolerate” the undermining of one’s agenda from within due to adversity or operate by first principles that aren’t your own? Tolerate intolerance and pretend objective reality doesn’t matter?

          • Regina Wanassa

            I’m sorry I’ve let you down, Condew. What was it about my comments that diminished your esteem?

            Spider wasn’t engaging in intellectual debate by any measure. I must have missed Feloniousgrammar’s racist remarks or any remarks that would indicate victimhood. It was difficult to follow the thread.

          • condew

            Feloniousgrammer often makes remarks where, if you substituted black for white or female for male, you’d swear the remark was written by some segregationist in the 50s. Obama got 40% of the white vote, and she’s set to condemn 100% of white men, no credit for any silliness like the content of their character. The point I try to make repeatedly is that if 5% of those white voters had voted the other way, we’d have a president McCain now. So is it really smart to be divisive? Can we afford to throw those votes away in any election? Rather than a lazy disparraging comment about white men, how about a specific comment about specific white men? If I made disparaging remarks about people of color, you’d demand the same of me.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Again, you’re seeing something that I cannot see. I haven’t observed any remarks by Feloniousgrammar that could be remotely interchangeable with “some segregationist in the 50s.” Disparaging comments about white men you say? Well, we must agree to disagree. My evaluation didn’t find any remarks so disparaging or lazy, but rather sharp and insightful. Not sure how you are parsing here. I suspect that a specific comment per your suggestion would be treated as an Ad hominem. In which case a person attempting to draw attention to white privilege would be stuck in an expectation wedge that amounts to “say nothing at all about white privilege.” Can’t say anything specifically and can’t say anything generally.

            Again, Spiderbucket wasn’t engaging in honest debate or open-minded discourse. If that’s the default position, which seems to be the modus operandi of the Factional EmoProgLeft. Libertarianism, and the Right Wing in general, then the options for drawing attention to matters of contention become a bit more limited, don’t they? That default position is hostile, coercive, and antagonistic discourse from the start.

            As for divisiveness, it’s a good item to ponder further. Divide and Conquer as a concerted strategy is an effective one. Conservative-Libertarian rhetoric uses it to supreme effect and has for decades to dismantle the Democratic base. I would say that in my estimation those who have no intention to unify or unite will always move the goalposts so they don’t ever have to come to understanding or agreement. A permanent state of adversity works to their advantage. Provoking your “opponent” combined with refusing to honestly engag are successful tactics in achieving that end.

            As to divisiveness and percentages in your example, I’d say this. Yes, we can afford to lose elections, and yes we can afford to see precisely how Conservative-Libertarians operate when given power. That said, we can’t afford it for long or indefinitely, and we can’t afford for Democrats to govern like Republicans. If a voter believes that the GOP agenda is healthy for living human beings, then that voter should vote for the GOP. If there are voters that are on the fence about whether or not the GOP is healthy for living human beings, then there’s really not much one can do, in terms of “debate” is there?

            I think it’s fairly apparent that Conservative-Libertarian strategy for well over three decades is subversion from within. I can safely say for myself I don’t want nor will I support a political agenda that opens its arms to white privilege and a suite of other issues dear to me.

            So, if we are the point that Conservative-Libertarianism has forced us and has been forcing us for decades with their political belligerence – that point of winnowing or separating the chaff from the wheat – then I know where I stand. I won’t stand with Rand. I won’t stand with any elected official who condone any portion of the Conservative-Libertarian agenda. I believe in unity and union, and I believe in the value of genuine compromise. I don’t see either as realistic options when one side only operates by “winner-take-all.”

          • Kerry Reid

            If only your opinion mattered to me. I’ll send the tissues and unguent.

          • condew

            Well, I’m not your the demographic you favor, so no news there.

          • Kerry Reid

            Good luck with your career in spiteful self-pity and electoral blackmail. Obviously I will lose much by not kowtowing to your abusive-spouse mentality — “If you don’t show me respect, I will make you wish you had by voting for people who will hurt you!”

            Let me play you offstage: http://www.sadtrombone.com/

          • Regina Wanassa

            Condew:

            i reviewed part of the comment thread to determine how you may have interpreted my comments so negatively. I did use foul language which I don’t normally do. Those expletives should have been placed in quotes or more properly referenced since my foul phrase pertained directly to the foul phrase of the person I was replying to. I probably was fairly sloppy in my commenting today as well.

            I also may have gotten snarkier than I normally do.I have a penchant for biting sarcasm, but I do try to engage in civil discourse. Holding my caustic tongue is sometimes a challenge. I’ll try harder to keep it in check.

            I did review one comment of yours regarding recurrent sexism and racism on the part of Feloniousgrammar. I’m still surprised by it. In my estimation your judgement there is inaccurate. Again your assessment of Spiderbucket is also inaccurate. I think perhaps, my regard for your evaluation deserves more scrutiny in the future. I shall think twice on your opinion.

            All the same, thank you for the feedback. I shall double my efforts at maintaining a civil discourse.

          • condew

            Normally your posts are very factual and detailed, and bring in a historical perspective,but today you got down in the mud and wrestled with swine. I respect responses that say “You’ve got your facts wrong, and here’s an authoritative source or another take. I don’t like rhetorical slight-of hand. You’re still above average in my book, but life’s too short to spend it all on blogs, so i only get on every few days now, so i miss a lot, or maybe nothing. The blogs are like a world stuck in amber, nothing really changes here.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Thank you again for your feedback. I still don’t know what you are referring to with rhetorical sleight-of-hand, but that’s okay. I think I get the general gist.

          • feloniousgrammar

            I won’t, but I always enjoy your posts, Regina.

          • spiderbucket

            See. Now that was very nice and level-headed.

    • Victor_the_Crab

      spiderbucket wins the Annoying Fuckstick of the Day award.

  • Kerry Reid

    Could any of the guys here who are complaining about how awful everyone is being to the white guys please point out ONE state law that is restricting your right to vote, or one recent court decision or state law that denies you access to reproductive healthcare or requires you to undergo further invasive medical procedures before you can access your LEGAL right to such care?

    If your baseline for “oppression” is “people who have been shit on for generations on the basis of race and gender are fed up with the assumption that the care and feeding of the feelings of white guys is the primary social good, and are saying so on the internet,” then you are in fact the embodiment of privilege.

    • NW10

      I definitely remember all the history of the plights of the white man: so many whites were Stop and Frisked, the whites were treated as slaves having to do hard labor and had their land taken away from them by those evil brown people. Whites have always been the victims of brown people, WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!

      • drspittle

        It’s the slaves’ fault they were slaves. They didn’t reach across the cotton fields to compromise with the slave owners. Sheesh, people!
        //snark

    • Regina Wanassa

      Hear, Hear! :)

    • feloniousgrammar

      Yep. When someone carries on an on about how acknowledging racism is racism, then brings up all his grievances about the times he was discriminated against because someone was talking about someone who wasn’t him and didn’t look like him, then that’s white, male, privilege.

      I do wish them the opportunity to be truly aggrieved for comparison.

      • Kerry Reid

        Also love their “But I voted for Obama twice!” defense. So did I. And as I believe I pointed out in another comment, MOST of the people I’ve voted for over the past 30 years, as well as the ones to whose campaigns I’ve donated time and money, have been white dudes. So how exactly does that make me a horrible reverse-racist and misandryst?

        • feloniousgrammar

          Didn’t see yourself go into that rabbit hole, didja?

          Probably because you didn’t.

    • woodrowfan

      well, I have to “Press 1 for English.” I didn’t have to do that as a kid. It’s practically Stalinist! The next thing you know, we’ll be pressing 1 for Spanish and 2 for English! the horrors!

      • Kerry Reid

        And what about Spanglish? Huh? HUH?

        • feloniousgrammar

          I like that movie. Adam Sandler didn’t ruin it. It had a good script.

          • Kerry Reid

            I still haven’t seen it. The only Adam Sandler movies I’ve seen that didn’t give me scrapie were “The Wedding Singer” and that one that Paul Thomas Anderson directed. The serious one. Crap. I can’t remember the title! Middle age sucks. ;)

          • feloniousgrammar

            Off topic, and off the wall, but since I started playing electronic Scrabble, it’s become obvious that there are a lot of terms for sheep diseases in English.

          • Kerry Reid

            Ha! I love that Warren Zevon worked the word “brucellosis” into a song.

          • feloniousgrammar

            That’s different!

          • Kerry Reid

            Yes, I believe it’s a cattle disease, if Warren is anything to go on: “The cattle all have brucellosis. We’ll get through somehow.” Which is my rallying song on some days, believe me.

          • Bosma

            Punch Drunk Love. Brilliant movie…

          • Kerry Reid

            Yes! Thank you. I sort of have a girl-crush on Emily Watson.

    • don

      So … if you are a White Guy you don’t have problems? Life is perfect? All you owe is the Historical Karma?

      • Treading_Water
        • Kerry Reid

          You bet he did! Thanks for posting that.

        • don

          Interesting analogy. At some point you have to realize you are making a generalization and applying it to individuals. A bad thing even from an analytical point of view. There are a lot of white guys who have not lead a life of privilege. Just because a Bush got an easy ride through Yale or Harvad doesn’t mean Joe Shmoe had it easy in Iowa or is a racist. At some point this becomes a ritualistic sacrifice where we take a token white guy and place all the sins of a culture past and present and make him pay. This may feel good but it also fails because race and racism is a human issue not just a White Guy issue.

        • Kerry Reid

          Louis CK also did a good job with it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkJOcpapKGI

      • Kerry Reid

        Try reading what I actually said — point to a law that is restricting your right to vote or your access to healthcare on the basis of race or gender. And you never answered another question of mine — as a Ron Paul fan, which of his racist newsletters was your particular favorite?

        • don

          No, I read what you said Kerry. You can read my response to Treading_water below. My point is that you idealize some theoretical white man’s existence and convolve it with your challenges to create a soup of resentment. Most of the human race can do that. The wrongs of the past are important as are the wrongs of the present. But, at some point we have to look ahead. Case-in-point you imply I am a racist because I challenged you with a question and that I think Ron Paul has had some interesting things to say (and not about race). The old man was right on many things. If he said racially insensitive things in 1983 he was insensitive. Jesse Jackson said he spit in White People’s food when he worked as a buss boy. Does that make what he says today more or less relevant? Does that give you or me the right to make him a political cartoon to characterize other people?

          • Kerry Reid

            No, you dodge the issue of historic and ongoing legislative and socially enforced discrimination that is lodged against black people and women and try to ignore it by saying “But some white guys have it hard, too!”as if that is dispositive. The fact is you cannot point to one law that singles out white men — either directly or by barely disguised legalistic subterfuge — for widespread discrimination in the way that voting rights and healthcare for black people and women are being held hostage or challenged in many states.

            See, the difference between Ron Paul and Jesse Jackson is that Jackson grew up in a world where black people were beaten and killed (including Dr. King) for simply trying to enact their basic human rights. So his rage is justifiable, if misplaced. Ron Paul has never suffered strictly on account of his race or gender. His racism is simply that of a hateful sociopath who has been given a pass by others who wish to share in his phantasm of white resentment politics, despite the lack of any evidence that white males are SPECIFICALLY targeted for discrimination. So while you may feel comfortable waving away his racist rhetoric, it is in fact a dealbreaker for those of us who do not get the legislative benefit of the doubt on the basis of race and gender.

          • don

            I agree. People should not be targeted because of their race or gender. Period. I agree. Resentment is disastrous force against civilization and happiness. Period. I agree that many people of all races, genders, ethnicities, and beliefs have been destroyed by ignorance, hatred, and exploitation and we shouldn’t tolerate any systematic practices born out of these human weaknesses. Period.

            PS … I think Jackson’s actions based on rage were “understandable” not “justifiable”. I think Paul’s racism was rationalizing a political belief in an attempt to avoid dealing with obvious wrongs of the culture before him. Both men were wrong.

          • Kerry Reid

            I’ll accept “understandable” as a substitute. But you are still completely incapable of acknowledging that it is not ALL races, genders, ethnicities, and beliefs that have been destroyed, particularly in the U .S. No laws are discriminating against you on the basis of your race and gender. Period. THAT is privilege.

          • don

            I acknowledge, and not begrudgingly, that in the American experience, as a group, white men were the top of the pyramid of unfair formal and informal exploitation of people. People of African decent and Native Americans were especially victimized. It was wrong. There are echoes of this order that still exist today. They are wrong. There are also policies meant to redress and correct these historical facts that, as things get better, repoison the well of resentment. At some point we have to let go. Not forget but let go. A white man born in 1985 is only responsible and acountable to HIS actions not a white man born in 1925 or 1865. Racism and sexism are human issues we all have to be concerned with. Not just “white” or “male” issues.

          • Kerry Reid

            And when state legislatures stop trying to control women’s bodies and limit the votes of minorities and the marriage and family rights of gay people, then I will be willing to consider “letting it go.” It’s not “resentment.” “Resentment” is a way people with privilege belittle those who do not have it. (See also under: “race card.”)

            It’s fighting for the most basic rights over one’s body, one’s franchise as a citizen, and one’s right to establish a legally protected family. Since you are lucky enough not to be one of those targeted in that way, and seem unwilling to acknowledge that white straight men STILL have privileges and rights extended to them at birth that many of us are still fighting for (either for ourselves or others not so lucky), I think ignoring your pronouncements on equality and human rights is probably the smart way to go. You are a poster child of Not Fucking Getting It.

          • don

            I have a thousand dollars to / my name. And no government assistance I spent / my money raising my tkids as a single parent. My mother grew up a share cropper in depression oklahoma on the edge of starvation . …. I know what privalidge is and isnt. . Your presunptions of who people are with limited information is exactly / the type of thinking that is the problem!

          • Kerry Reid

            Again, I ask you: WHAT DISCRIMINATORY LAWS ARE LIMITING YOU? None. You can marry whomever you want and adopt children without anyone declaring you a pariah because of your sexual orientation (I am presuming you are straight). Your voting rights aren’t being challenged, let alone your healthcare decisions, by state legislatures.

            So yes — you have privilege compared to black and Latino and female voters who are being deliberately and cynically excised from the voting rolls. You have privilege compared to gay people who are being told that they may not provide the same level of legal recognition for their relationships. You have privilege compared to women who are being investigated for miscarriages because of fetus-fetish laws.

            You make the common mistake of assuming “Well, I’ve had bad luck, therefore privilege isn’t real.” Your PERSONAL woes are not the yardstick by which INSTITUTIONAL oppression is measured.

            Dude, seriously — smarten up about this shit. You’re embarrassing yourself.

            Also: Rand Paul ain’t gonna help you financially, cuz in Rand-Land (Ayn and Aqua Buddha alike), you’re supposed to use your bootstraps because FREE MARKET!!! If you’re failing, it’s because you’re just not good enough according to the Free Market Fetishists exemplified by Papa Paul and his Poorly-Bewigged Grifter Offspring.

          • don

            Kerry, you are precious. I just said I know what privilege is and what it isn’t. I don’t deny that it is real. You again convolve different things into the same thing. Racism is not the same a sexism and is not the same as LGBT acceptance as a legal norm.

            By-the-way, I cannot marry whom ever I want or how ever many I want. There are restrictions on me too. I don’t think its the governments business who I love. I do think its the governments business when I ask it to subsidize my lifestyle though. As for my health care decisions I guess you have never considered the pre-existing condition nightmare that doesn’t give a shit if you are a white male or not. And, as for reproductive rights (not STD prevention) I have two options: abstinence or sterilization. IF I were to get a woman pregnant I have no rights to decide the fate of my unborn child or unwanted fetus depending on the woman’s (not mine) philosophical view. I have some rights to visitation that I have to assert and fight for and I am at a distinct disadvantage in family courts all across this great land of yours. You clearly have never experienced being a man of any color or ethnicity in divorce or family court. And, if you have ever been married to a professional woman like I have, from graduate school on, you would have seen a different perspective on who is privileged and I get very well the privilege created by affirmative action laws and attitudes. And, you have never experienced that woman can abandon their kids and be dead beats just like men. But, to quote you “Your PERSONAL woes are not the yardstick by which INSTITUTIONAL oppression is measured.”. I resisted making this points because I know that my experiences don’t characterize society but neither do yours. That is not how statistics works. But, they are MY EXPERIENCES. They are not theoretical. At 50 I have lived fully in the post feminist movement world. I have lived in the generation after the Civil Rights movement. I have raised children in a world where people shirk responsibility with a therapeutic narrative or a slogan from both Left and Right and all races. I have a pretty good hold on what is bullshit and what is not and what is privilege and what is not.

            Have White Men been colossal assholes in the pass? Absolutely. So have a lot of races and ethnic groups. Women have always just been innocent and victims? Really? An asshole is an asshole no matter what color, or creed, or sex.

            But, finally, we come to the precious thing of Political Correctness. It gives you power and you like it. It allows you to see a wrong and claim whatever truth you want to claim and no one argues with you because they are scared. It gives you a self-righteousness comparable to many of the White Male assholes that you hate so much. It covers your ass when you make assumptions about people like they do. It allows you to be LIKE THEM.

            Finally, when you said “smarten up about this shit” you assumed because I have no money I must be stupid or uneducated. I am neither.

      • Kerry Reid

        “Pity Party, your table for one is ready.”

    • Treading_Water

      self-deleted

  • BlueTrooth

    Rand Paul has a character problem. While it’s easy to cherry pick the ideological miscues and hypocrisy, it’s his character that will be his undoing. And because Libertarianism is a dangerous ideology that literally ensures slavery to varying degrees (the unintended consequence of lawless markets), Mr. Paul offers the opportunity to tie his character to the flawed “character” of Libertarianism as a whole. Any Libertarian worth their salt is well aware that poverty and disadvantage are integral to the “success” of others, and it’s usually explained away by “natural law” or even more mundane ramblings about hard work and bootstraps. The smoke and mirrors of Libertarianism is the selective application of ideals and projections of results within CURRENT REGULATIONS and norms. When Rand pontificates about Civil Rights absent of the Civil Rights Act, he’s being somewhat genuine. His real meaning is simple, “the market will determine whether discrimination is allowed”, a rather messy (most often violent) process as Americans have demonstrated. But now, Rand is using the smoke and mirror filter and applying his flawed ideology to the reality that there IS a Civil Rights Act and within those regulations, of course he believes everyone should be served at the lunch counter. More and more, Randy is applying less and less of his rigid ideology and this really shouldn’t bode well for him. True Libertarians are “believers” with no room for compromise and no more respect for a State Government than a Federal Government. And while it may be true that Libertarians are a small minority in the big picture, they are also the only reason Randy has a voice in the Senate and they abhor any hint of compromise without an easily recognized “wink and a nod”.

    • feloniousgrammar

      Yes, and people who fully embrace ‘scarcity’ as a necessary tenet of capitalism or “the free market” to go out of their way to find it, because that’s where the money is sans regulation.

    • drspittle

      “The smoke and mirrors of Libertarianism is the selective application of ideals and projections of results within CURRENT REGULATIONS and norms. ” That is a key point that is not usually discussed in the national discourse.

  • gescove

    Pathology of trolls: Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others), narcissism (egotism and self-obsession), psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others). These defects mean that such individuals cannot be reasoned with or dissuaded. Don’t feed the trolls. It’s tiresome to have a discussion derailed by their boorishness.

    • feloniousgrammar

      I quit. It’s something I very rarely do. Sorry.

  • Robert Scalzi

    here is troll boy Spiderdfumbasses FB page his name is Donny Shitstain ooops I mean Shattuck https://www.facebook.com/dhanishattuck spam the fuck out of him.

    • i_a_c

      This is really poor form.

      • Robert Scalzi

        you right it is being removed – i must think before letting a paul bot upset me like that – I apologize to you all

        • feloniousgrammar

          I’ve wasted too much with this troll this morning, but it’s a designated lazy day for me, so I’ll just have fun with it. In spite of how much he apparently needs it, or thinks he needs, I haven’t emoted on his behalf. Some idjits presume that cussing always signifies anger, but I cuss casually.

          Or, maybe he actually perceives everything that he says he says he sees here.

          shudder

        • Regina Wanassa

          Thank you. I think your reaction is a natural one under the circumstances. Spiderbucket appears to be among those who understand the delicate art of antagonism.

        • spiderbucket

          https://www.facebook.com/robert.scalzi.1

          You are a chickenshit coward. Couldn’t even post it under your regular account, huh ?

          I wonder what would happen if I did the same shit you did on various right winger sites ?

    • Regina Wanassa

      Robert:

      Spiderbucket behaved reprehensibly on this thread, but I don’t think it is appropriate to reveal his identity or spam his facebook page.

  • elgallorojo

    I completely agree with Bob that both Pauls should be far away from the levers of political power. However, when they want to do something useful, like defund the undemocratic, dystopian Surveillance/Police State that Bob fawns over so much, it’s OK to support them on that one thing if they’re genuinely supporting that one thing. (BTW, that doesn’t mean cutting a deal on one of his bad issues — eg, like jettisoning health care or welfare or the CRA — just to get his vote on the one good issue. That’s what Cult of Bobdino Democrats do so well, being so “pragmatic” and all, and is one of the primary reasons why so many RWNJs like Rand Paul have been elected in recent years.)

    • JozefAL

      Oh, right. It has NOTHING to do with emo-left progs who were upset that the Messiah they thought they elected in Obama in 2008 decided to sit out the 2010 elections to punish Obama and the Dems for not doing everything they naively thought they’d get on Jan 21, 2009. They seemed to forget that the President in this country is NOT a dictator, able to simply make laws as he sees fit and without any opposition. No, he needs a Congress willing to work WITH him (unfortunately, the GOP members of Congress basically announced on Jan 3, 2009 they had every intention of turning Obama into a one-term president and refused to do anything that might appear to benefit Obama politically).

      You seem to be one of those truly naive people.

      Grow the fuck up. Learn how the political system in this country actually works.

      • Regina Wanassa

        Bravo! :)

  • El Presidente

    O brother……
    This “Story” coming from d ummies who voted for Obama twice…..
    Obama’s performance is by far the worst of any President, and his Foreign Policy is even worse, an absolute disaster.

    • feloniousgrammar

      List the disasters.

      • El Presidente

        Libya, Syria, Egypt, ISIS taking over Iraq, Putin playing him like a Fiddle etc. Obama flooding the US with illegals.

        • feloniousgrammar

          Why were we in Iraq, again?

          Are American Presidents supposed to run other countries, now?

        • Bosma

          And how would a President Randy Paul improve such matters? Details, please. And feel free to indulge in whatever idealistic fantasies about him you may have..

          • bbcaaat

            He would eliminate all taxes which will result in a surplus of federal revenue to rebuild the struggling corporations.

          • condew

            You do realize that taxes are federal revenue, don’t you?

          • bbcaaat

            The republicans think that if you eliminate taxes, we will gather more revenue, just making fun of their failed ideology.

        • aynwrong

          Exactly how in God’s name is Obama responsible for the events in any of those countries?
          Putin is playing him like a fiddle? How should he respond to Putin? Be specific.
          Flooding us with illegals huh? SMH.

        • undsoweiter

          So, if you could, show us, on the doll, where the bad man touched you.

        • bbcaaat

          Libya … he avoided a war that the right was screaming for. Syria … same answer, Egypt … same answer, ISIS? Bush signed the leave by papers, and same answer, Putin is an insignificant minor league player that doesn’t deserve our attention, The “illegals” are coming because Bush advertised and wrote the law.
          Now … why hasn’t the house of representatives presented an immigration bill? Not to mention a jobs bill,

      • CL Nicholson

        Felonious – he’s a troll. Find a talking goat to throw at him and walk away slowly. Its not worth it.

        • feloniousgrammar

          O.K. I quit. It was my day to waste time on trolls and I’m done now.

    • undsoweiter

      You don’t say. So, the doctor said that if he stopped playing with it, the rash would go away? Tell me about the ointment again.

    • Scopedog

      Wow…you’ve already forgotten Bush and have ignored Reagan, Hoover, Harding, Richard fucking Nixon, for God’s sake, and several other Presidents.

      Man…..how do you do it?

      Compared to them, Obama’s a VAST improvement.

    • bbcaaat

      I bet you loved GWB and Reagan.

  • FlipYrWhig

    Another thing that should never be ignored about Rand Paul is that his voice is reedy and hoarse and whiny and annoying, and he makes purse-lipped faces and shrugs while he whines. Being in a room with him for upwards of 2 minutes has to be excruciating. His dad is goofy but at least he has personality. Rand is just a weird dude. He’s off. Rand is like the kid who wants to borrow your shorts before gym class because he forgot his.

    • feloniousgrammar

      He does often seem to be sniveling.

    • El Presidente

      ” voice is reedy and hoarse and whiny and annoying, and he makes purse-lipped faces and shrugs while he whines. Being in a room with him for upwards of 2 minutes has to be excruciating.”

      Describes Hillary Clinton very well.

      • bbcaaat

        Hillary has more experience than all of the republicans in the clown car (make that the clown short bus).

  • JohnC80

    Political irony: Liberals who believe Obama isn’t liberal enough support a guy who would repeal the last 60 years of social progress.

    • CL Nicholson

      Political irony: Liberals who believe Obama isn’t liberal enough support a guy who would repeal the last 60 years of social progress.

      But, he’ll let you get high.

      • ffakr

        If Rand Paul has taken a clear stance in favor of Marijuana legalization, you can be sure of one thing.
        Rand Paul denies he has ever been in favor or Legalization and anyone who says so is just a Hater.

    • Scopedog

      Yep. Makes no damned sense either.

  • GrafZeppelin127

    16) Rand Paul is a very, very stupid person.

    • Kerry Reid

      Really should be at the top of the list.

  • CL Nicholson

    Forget the fact that Rand Paul aligns with fetus-fetish quacks like Rick Santorum on abortion and women’s rights. In general, smart progressives and fair minded conservatives should avoid Libertarians like the plague – its the alignment of every horrible stereotype one side has about the other (morally ambivalent druggies to the Right & heartless corporate stooges to the Left). How anyone could align themselves with the intellectual soul mate of Paul Ryan still come themselves progressives is baffling and bordering on stupid.

    But, I’m not surprised. I hear many guys my age sign up for ridiculous memes about the government – because my generation and the one behind me generally uneducated about civics and social history. The problem is that today’s millennial and younger Gen-X activists are result of Reaganomics and Clinton era waffling. They were born after MLK & JFK were killed, and by the time they were of age – Reagan gutted the Social safety net. They don’t have foggiest clue how the government works and why a strong federal government is necessary.

    Most libertarian nominal support of liberal issues can be boiled down to three words “Spying, Hookers & Pot”. He’s only liberal if you define liberals a white upper middle class techie dude-bro libertarian in Silicon Valley. Corner him on issues concerning folks who don’t make 80-100K a year designing fonts for Facebook and or don’t use tanning booths – you get a whole different story.

    Other than support Cory Booker on drug enforcement reform & his phony conspiracy theory fueled tirade against Obama’s drone policy – name one progressive idea that Rand Paul is actually to the Left of Obama on.

    • Regina Wanassa

      Well said. Thank you for another excellent contribution, CL.

    • RenoRick

      Well said indeed! Libertarians cannot be trusted, period. Most libertarians that I have met could be diagnosed as sociopaths. They truly are incapable of caring for others. I’d vote for a Republican any day over a Libertarian.

  • Toolymegapoopoo

    We see here on this very message board today the real power of Rand Paul. He’s been able to dupe a tiny number of like-minded zealots to invade progressive message boards and spread his filth. In other words, it is no power at all. It is pure quantity over quality and it is usually peppered with “I know you are but what am I” schoolyard mentality. Sure, repetition will occasionally push you above the usual noise but in the end Rand Paul has to stand on a stage and debate level-headed people. Sure, that probably won’t happen until the general election but when it does that’s the end of that Paul.

    • spiderbucket

      Yes, we are like-minded zealots. Wait – isn’t that what you WANT ?

      • feloniousgrammar

        Not really. That’s the strawman in your head.

        • spiderbucket

          So, free thinking is ok with you ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            Is “free thinking” when a person makes something up and keeps attacking it as what another person is saying when they’re saying no such thing?

          • spiderbucket

            Yeah, it is actually.

          • ak1287

            Wait? How is that ‘free thinking?’ If I make some shot up, attribute it to another person, and then attack a person for saying something that they never actually said, that’s not free thinking. That’s being an idiot.
            If you have no logical, factual basis for your claims, and instead must resort to fallacious and untrue arguments, you should just not talk; leave the conversation to the grown ups, as your mother would say.

          • spiderbucket

            so, you are against free thinking? i aleady assumed you were against free speech, but thoughtcrime ? And censorship too, obviously. see, this is where i decided to jump off of the crazy train. that is at the core of these discussions. if you are too numb to the consequences of those things, i dont think we can be on the same side of anything else.

          • ak1287

            No, you can think whatever you want. And when you voice those thoughts, you are putting them at the mercy of the populace; you cannot claim persecution for having your freely offered opinions ridiculed when there is not a government entity attacking those opinions.
            If you don’t want to be ridiculed or attacked for your opinions, you can provide edification and logical reasoning behind your beliefs. If you don’t care either way, then expect to have your opinions attacked and berates, but don’t claim you are being persecuted.

    • CL Nicholson

      Sure, repetition will occasionally push you above the usual noise but in the end Rand Paul has to stand on a stage and debate level-headed people. Sure, that probably won’t happen until the general election but when it does that’s the end of that Paul.

      I agree in concept, Rand Paul is nutcase and would look like a nutcase next to an Elizabeth Warren or a Hillary Clinton. The problem is that the Tea Party led GOP of today isn’t lead by level-headed people & if you have enough Far Left cranks like Greenwald & Nader gumming up the works, you could very well have a President Rand Paul. And, well, say goodbye to birth control and clean water.

      • spiderbucket

        The hysterics are part of the problem. You think that any politician who you disagree with will cause another holocaust, re-institute the draft, resurrect slavery, and cause the doom of the entire planet. You sound a lot like the people who said Obama would implement sharia law and all that other shit. Grown adults get tired of that and have seen it all before. It used to be laughable when the GOP did, but it’s not so funny that BOTH parties do it incessantly.

        • CL Nicholson

          Uh, kid – go back to whatever DeVry campus you dropped out of and get a refund. Then take that money and spend it a proper state college. Or, simply use Google.

          Rand Paul, like his father Ron are rabid John Birch enthusiasts who have regularly talked about gutting the EPA and Medicare. And Rand Paul is a hardcore anti-abortion type. The same guy who decries Obama ‘clamping down on journalists and free speech’ is also thinks the government has a right to tell my wife and sisters when and where they can procreate.

          • spiderbucket

            So would Hamas, but you’re cool with them. If we lose civil rights due to a politician going through our process, that’s better than doing it by beheading people. And yes, I have a master’s degree in Supremacy that I got from the University of Phoenix online, but it’s serving me pretty damn well since I have a nice job and I am having no problem making the people on this thread look like helpless, oppressed morans.

          • CL Nicholson

            You’re worried about the civil rights of what one could call a traitor to his home country but you’re cool with a politician who think restaurants can refuse Black people and gays because they’re private corporations. I’ve got nothing.

          • spiderbucket

            If that’s how you read it and that’s what you believe, then what can I possibly say ? Anyone who disagrees is a traitor to their country ? I’ve heard that before, but hearing it from The Left is a new thing to me. Kind of disturbing that of all the things that we COULD possibly use from The Right, THIS is what you chose. Nice job.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Except you haven’t made anyone on this thread look like helpless, oppressed morons. Yet, it’s admirable that you candidly admit that your objective here isn’t genuine discourse or the intellectual exchange of ideas.

          • spiderbucket

            That might have gone over your head, but keep reading and it may make better sense to you.

        • i_a_c

          Rand Paul would undo the Clean Water Act if he could. Impediment to business and whatnot. He tried to gut it as a senator.

          This is real stuff that happened.

        • feloniousgrammar

          Stop pretending you’re liberal.

          https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/rand_paul/412492

          Rand Paul votes with Republicans.

          • spiderbucket

            I didn’t say I AM liberal. But if hating on people for their race, their age, their gender and their sexuality is liberal now – then yeah, I’m not about that at all.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Then why are you here? It’s none of you goddamned business how we vote and what we think about Obama. Have you ever— once— stated a fact at this website?

          • spiderbucket

            Does everyone who comes to the Daily Banter required to agree on everything ? That’s kind of what I am trying to get away from, yo.

          • feloniousgrammar

            No, but you come here to concern troll and play like you’re a victim of our political views, and claim we should be sorry because you’re a cis straight white privileged middle age male, and we’ll be sorry for not seeing things your way, blah, blah, blah.

            I’ve got a cis straight white privileged male in my life, and he doesn’t pretend to be a victim of minorities because liberals talk about discrimination.

          • spiderbucket

            So, the fact that you have a ‘ cis straight white privileged male’ in your life and you call me that as a SLUR ? Sounds perfectly sane.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Your words, dipshit.

          • feloniousgrammar

            You’re a victim of the War on Whites— poor, poor, pitiful thing.

          • spiderbucket

            I AM ? But I thought I was enjoying the luxuries of being white ?

  • Churchlady320

    The most overlooked aspect of Rand is his devotion to Dominionism. He was anointed along with Ted Cruz by Ted’s slavering RW Dominionist father. He has not a lick of concern for civil rights, he like his father, is repelled by LGBT people, he’s deeply racist as shown by his alliances, and he wants a theocracy. So anyone who’s fed up with progressives and their immaturity and is looking at Rand as an alternative has NOT found someone with whom there is an iota of compatibility. To pretend you’re progressive and that Rand is your man leading on those issues is sheer and utter self delusion.

    • feloniousgrammar

      I wish it did surprise me that people who think they’re liberal like an American Taliban candidate. It wouldn’t surprise me if, in the case that the U.S. was turned into an evangelical nation,emotarian white men joined the church and became hardliners.

      They just want to be on the side that’s (most obviously according to the MSM and their amusement units and selfish desires) winning.

      • Kerry Reid

        They want to be on the side of a WHITE guy who is winning. The black guy who won the presidency twice without kissing their asses pisses them off more than anything the GOP has ever done.

        • spiderbucket

          Again – what about the people who voted for him. Do they not get to be disappointed ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            They didn’t know what they were voting for.

          • ruth crocker

            great point. i am just now reading “the audacity of hope” from 2006 . he is just as he presented himself in that book and champions the sames policies. he describes trade-offs and compromises needed to effect change. he doesn’t promise single payer health care. he doesn’t say we can do with an national security apparatus. he doesn’t hold all liberal sacred cows sacred. he is exactly as advertised. he has done what he said he would do in his campaigns. if people expected somthing else, they weren’t pay attention. but they should suspend there disappointment long enough to takeamgood hard look at hwat he actually has one. it is considerable..

          • spiderbucket

            And he emphasized self reliance and hard work. But when he says things like that he gets more criticism than any other single thing he has done on the Left. Deny that.

          • i_a_c

            He does get some criticism for speaking in favor of self reliance, again from a few fringey types.

            But he also insists on recognizing the structural deficiencies that still exist in our system–for example, the DOJ’s Civil Rights division has been very active in that arena. For another example, there’s that fair sentencing law for crack cocaine.

            There are more things we can do to make things more equitable. I think that you have been saying that this kind of advocacy is treated by some as a replacement for self reliance, which is not the case for the vast majority of Democrats. Again, it seems to me that you’re focusing on a few fringey types.

            The Democratic Party has, since the Civil Rights Act, been a coalition between moderates and liberals. There are more moderates in the Democratic Party than in the Republican Party. The political leadership recognizes this and plans accordingly, with messaging and policy that generally appeals broadly to moderates and liberals. The far left fringe is upset that the political leadership doesn’t pay more attention to them.

            If you spent more time on this site you would find that many people here, and some of the writers, are none too pleased with the fringe left and how they sabotage the politics. I suspect that you would agree on many of those points, but what I think you’re mistaken about is that some of these fringe elements do not represent the party more broadly. It is a big tent with a wide range of views, and the polling, votes, makeup of Congress, etc. bear this out.

          • spiderbucket

            I cannot disagree with you on anything other than the fringe elements not having any power. They do.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Why don’t you give us this “good hard look at what he actually has done” that is so dreadful? List three things.

          • spiderbucket

            Holy shit, dude. That is the best comment/question on this entire thread. 1. He has done a lot for the gay community. 2. He has helped lower class workers. 3. He’s been an ally of women.

            None of which matters because he is clearly a shill for the NWO, right ?

          • Regina Wanassa

            Felonious:

            I interpreted Ruth’s comment as an invitation for those on the Left afflicted with Obama Derangement Syndrome to look at all the positive aspects of Obama”s presidency that they refuse to acknowledge or tend to ignore.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Thanks, Regina.

          • spiderbucket

            So, maybe you were wrong ? Admit it and feel better immediately.

          • ruth crocker

            among the disappointing things he has done is rescuing the economy and a lot of the manufacturing sector; enacting health care reform so that millions of people now have health care insurance and health care costs are stabilizing, passing financial regulations including a new consumer protection bureau, taking solid steps to curb carbon emissions and increase fuel efficiency. he also provides a rare example of what a reasonable, open minded person acts like.

          • spiderbucket

            But what has he done for me, lately ?

          • ruth crocker

            he can do something for you right now – utube him singing “let’s stay together.” does rand paul do al green? thought not.

          • spiderbucket

            I love that. I loved Clinton on Arsenio too. My comment was in jest.

          • feloniousgrammar

            I couldn’t find that clip at the time. Cool— at the Apollo, no less.

          • Simon Saez

            But, he did say he would close Guantanamo, and instead he signed an executive order keeping the concentration camp open.

            He also said that he would seek Congressional authorization before committing to military action abroad, and that was revealed as another broken promise when he attacked Libya without Congressional approval. Additionally, although his administration did seek Congressional approval before striking Syria, neither Obama nor anyone in his administration would explicitly state that they would forgo military action if Congress voted it down, even when directly asked about it.

            Obama said he would try to fix NAFTA, but instead he did the opposite by expanding it, while manufacturing continues its exodus out of the country.

            He said that he would try to repeal the Bush-era tax cuts for those making over 250k, but I distinctly remember that in 2010, he gave the Republicans everything they wanted and signed legislation keeping ALL Bush tax cuts in place.

          • i_a_c

            But now the Bush Tax Cuts are out for everyone over 400k, which is not where he wanted, but it’s better than it was before.

            That’s also not including the Medicare surtax for people making over 250k/year as part of the ACA.

          • NW10

            But, he did say he would close Guantanamo,

            And he was blocked by Congress, which needs to appropriate funds. Do you think closing Guantanamo can be done for free?

            Also, what will happen to the detainees? Remember the outrage when President Obama swapped five of them for Bowe Bergdahl?

            He also said that he would seek Congressional authorization before committing to military action abroad, and that was revealed as another broken promise when he attacked Libya without Congressional approval

            Again, the Republican Congress would have said “no,” meaning he would’ve had to attack on his own anyways. He was attacked for “leading from behind” when he was weighing his options, and then he got lambasted for taking appropriate action even when Congress were dragging their feet. This is what happens when do nothing Republicans get elected.

            He said that he would try to repeal the Bush-era tax cuts for those making over 250k, but I distinctly remember that in 2010, he gave the Republicans everything they wanted and signed legislation keeping ALL Bush tax cuts in place.

            He extended them temporarily in exchange for an extent ion on UEI benefits, and the tax cuts ultimately expired altogether in the end.

          • i_a_c

            and the tax cuts ultimately expired altogether in the end.

            They are still in effect for everyone making less than 400k.

          • NW10

            Thanks for the correction.

          • feloniousgrammar

            But he’s damned if he do and damned if he don’t, NW10— shouldn’t we blame HIM?!

            No. Hmm— that thing about people being responsible for their own bad behavior seems to be too much for right-wingers and their enablers to bear.

            Poor things.

            So weak.

          • ruth crocker

            he’s not spiderman. he’s done everything he can to close guantanamo, but congress has blocked it. the airstrikes in libya saved hundreds of thousands of people who were about to be slaughtered, and he didn’t bomb syria, although he did get the desired stated result.

          • spiderbucket

            No, no, no – you cannot criticism Obama. That’s racist. Don’t you watch Melissa Harris-Perry ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            I didn’t read this closely enough. My apologies.

            I agree. He’s exactly who he said he was and he is completely lacking in guile.

          • ruth crocker

            don’t be skimming my comments – you might miss something good! : )

          • feloniousgrammar

            I agree!

          • Regina Wanassa

            Good advice, that. :)

          • spiderbucket

            They didn’t know he was black or that he would fail so hard ? I think they knew one but not the other.

          • Kerry Reid

            Your imagined oppression is darling. You are allowed to feel whatever you want. There are no thought police ready to barge in and take you off to re-education camps.

          • spiderbucket

            Have you been to any colleges lately ? I work with them and that is exactly what they want to have happen even if we are not quite there yet.

          • Kerry Reid

            “They” are everywhere! I’m sorry the anti-paranoia meds aren’t working for you.

          • Bosma

            My hunch is that an Ayn Rand Paul presidency would end up disappointing you as well. For all the talk about the disappointments of the Obama presidency and the compromising that he attempted, if you don’t see the same in what would happen if idealistic libertarians would come up against and fail epically in, well…

            For example, the first time Ayn Rand Paul abuses his power- I mean, issues an executive order. Or would he never do such a thing..???

          • NW10

            I’m more disappointed at the unicorn progressives on my side of the aisle that trashed the hell out of Democrats and gave the GOP the House, and damn near gave them the Senate.

          • WhittakerWalt

            They’re ready to do it again.

          • spiderbucket

            And you are right, sir.

          • spiderbucket

            Damn, we agree again ! What do you think will happen now that the unicorns have taken over ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            They haven’t.

          • spiderbucket

            Maybe, but their enablers have. Same thing to me.

    • spiderbucket

      “So anyone who’s fed up with progressives and their immaturity…” Who knows ? It might not be Rand Paul. But I will look for any alternative and consider it at least. It’s not like we are succeeding on too many levels right now.

      • Robert Scalzi

        go back to school and take some basic civics and poli sci classes – it will do you a world of good sonny boy

        • spiderbucket

          But I thought everything we’ve been taught is a lie ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            What-the-fuck ever, dude. Why don’t you tell us all exactly and concretely what you think Rand Paul would do for this country?

          • spiderbucket

            I don’t know. But if he is one of the oppressors, I would think he would get more done than the representatives of the oppressors. But they are the same thing, no ? When has an actual oppressed person won an election ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            Sometimes your fuzzy thinking is sad.

          • spiderbucket

            Thanks, sweetheart.

          • NW10

            I don’t know.

            That’s all you needed to respond with. The rest of your response is nonsensical pablum that doesn’t add anything to the discussion.

          • spiderbucket

            And that is where you stopped reading, so it’s a wash.

    • don

      Perhaps you should actually study what some says …How is Ron Paul anti LGBT? Ron Paul on Gay Marriage: http://youtu.be/vH0kHoWdK3M

      • feloniousgrammar

        He thinks that it’s perfectly fine for states to ban gay marriage.

        • don
          • spiderbucket

            I guess I should not hold out for, “Hmmmm…I didn’t know that. I may need to look into some of the claims being made on both sides.” Nah, fuck that.

          • feloniousgrammar

            I don’t think you or condorcet are in any danger of saying that, but feel free to continue to disappoint yourself.

          • feloniousgrammar

            You think he’s consistent?

          • gorilla cookies

            If you watch the Bruno movie, Ron Paul comes off as quite the homophobe.

            Which given all the crap that appeared in his newsletters, isn’t surprising.

          • spiderbucket

            Thank God for movies.

          • WhittakerWalt

            It’s not a scripted reaction. He wasn’t acting.

          • i_a_c

            Your own link says that Paul thinks the states should decide it for themselves.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Yes, iac, yes it does.

            The truth is more complex…and perhaps confusing. Congressman Paul’s view of same-sex “marriage” can best be summed up in one phrase: states rights. Ron Paul believes homosexuals should be allowed to “marry”…in states that legalize the practice.

            That is what it says, isn’t it?

          • i_a_c

            I even kind of agree that the feds should get out of the marriage business… until I realize that Ron Paul would get the feds out of everything. SS and Medicare… he’d leave that up to the states, too, so if you’re unlucky enough to live somewhere that isn’t too fond of helping the elderly and disadvantaged, you’re SOL.

            “Leave it up to the states” is shitty policy.

          • spiderbucket

            You keep inching closer to sanity.

          • Simon Saez

            You’re exaggerating. SS and Medicare are NOT the first programs that Ron Paul would eliminate, or even close to it. In fact, Ron Paul has voted against raiding the SS Trust Fund (by using it for non-SS things) every time it came up for a vote.

          • spiderbucket

            And Ron Paul is not running, so there’s that too.

          • feloniousgrammar

            In a better world, most people would be adept at negotiating, agreeing upon, writing, and honoring a contract.

          • don

            He actually says that SS and Medicare are not consistant with his political philosophy but he also has not acted to de-fund them and in fact worked to isolate them from the rest of the budget so Congress could not borrow against their surpluses thus trying to make the MORE secure. He also states on Gay marriage that he doesn’t think the government should not be involved at any level but if there is a deciding body it is the States.

          • spiderbucket

            Wait is Ron Paul running this time ?

        • Simon Saez

          So did Obama until 2012, and HRC didn’t come out in support of marriage equality until 2014.

          • NW10

            SO fail.

          • Simon Saez

            Why did you respond if you weren’t going to say anything of substance?

          • NW10

            The point is, both POTUS Obama and Mrs. Clinton are in support of gay.lesbian equality now and Rand Paul is against it.

          • spiderbucket

            So, the past is not something that we should bring up ? Agreed.

  • Ashes Defacto

    I’ve seen it said that many on the “left” are actually socially liberal conservatives. The idea of offering support to an arch conservative like Rand Paul reveals the truth about so many of these people and the very willful ignorance that they constantly wallow in. At the same time it’s amazing how they’re shocked when it comes around and bites them in the ass.

  • RenoRick

    “All cats are libertarians. Completely dependent upon others, yet entirely convinced of their independence.” This post made me think of that quote. Go ahead and vote for the dickhead frat boy America. Worked out great last time.

    • spiderbucket

      Yeah, the next guy did such a great job too.

      • Robert Scalzi

        get lost Kid

        • feloniousgrammar

          Dull, isn’t it?

        • spiderbucket

          Thanks for not calling me an old white guy. That’s progress !

          • Joe Super

            Old white guy.

      • RenoRick

        Better than those who live in the 19th century like the Pauls.

        • StephenMeansMe

          Implying that the Pauls actually know anything about history beyond the David-Barton-esque fantasies/revisionisms from the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

  • don

    I liked the Old Man. I liked Dennis Kucinich. You see, I think political debate is a GOOD IDEA. The Old man was right on Iraq. And, he is right on the Federal Reserve. I am not sure what to make of Rand Paul. He has shown some rookie judgement on things. I am not sure why a good liberal has a problem with jury nullification. Aren’t “the people” smarter than the lawyers, the judges, and the legislatures at least sometimes? And, being anti-drone is not a peacenik idea. A drone is arming a bureaucrat. No thanks. And, just how many Terminator movies is it going to take to convince people that artificial intelligence that kills is a bad idea?

    • NW10

      And, just how many Terminator movies is it going to take to convince
      people that artificial intelligence that kills is a bad idea?

      Terminator is fiction. I’d actually argue if you want to utilize a film that gives a good perspective into the AI debate, I, Robot is that film.

      • don

        Perhaps, Asimov always seemed a little naive to me. I am not exactly worried about my Rumba killing me. I am worried about a weaponized drone.

        • NW10

          Actually, I, Robot presents a decent argument against a police state by robots. The robotics in that technology tried to be perfected to the point that the robots attempted to imprison the humans from causing undue harm to themselves. That to me would be much more of a threat than a drone, considering that there has been a serious debate going on regarding automatons. Drones are piloted by humans, whereas automatons are programmed and are only capable of what they are programmed to do.

          • don

            Good point. As the Brave New World _ 1984 dichotomy teach us tyranny can come from different directions.

          • NW10

            tyranny can come from different directions.

            I’ve not seen anything close to being tyranny here in the United States, not even from the wrong wing. From Wikipedia, Plato and Aristotle define a tyrant as, “one who rules without law, looks to his own advantage rather than that of his subjects, and uses extreme and cruel tactics—against his own people as well as others”

          • feloniousgrammar

            Don’t you get it? “Tyranny” is not getting what you want. “Tyranny” is not being put first when you expect to be.

          • spiderbucket

            Glad you agree.

          • spiderbucket

            Then that’s problematic. Are we not surrounded by tyranny ?

          • NW10

            Show me where ANY politician, Democratic or Republican, has used extreme and cruel tactics against their own people and others.

          • spiderbucket

            Maybe it’s all this karma I am smoking but I am pretty sure we are in agreement. I was being sarcastic. “I’ve not seen anything close to being tyranny here in the United States, not even from the wrong wing.” is not a popular opinion these days. Am I right ?

          • spiderbucket

            But you would have to read to know what you are talking about.

          • don

            Intellectual fart? ;) excuse you

          • feloniousgrammar

            Well, once enough drones are captured and reprogrammed the whole concern about artificially intelligent drones should, but won’t vanish; because the game of “what if” can be played infinitely and those who do sp are chicken littles who cannot stop looking at the sky, because nothing on the ground appears to compel them to think about what IS happening.

          • spiderbucket

            Like ‘what if we are wrong?’

    • i_a_c

      I liked the Old Man.

      Of course you did.

      • don

        Whether you like his politics or not you would be hard pressed to find a politician more prescient on the consequences of our financial and foreign policy 1995 on.

        • spiderbucket

          Your opinion means nothing here. Capitalism is evil and basic economics are just too complicated to understand. And debate/opposing views is an outdated concept.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha…

          • spiderbucket

            Dude – I am making an argument for you. Isn’t it fashionable to decide things for other people ? Get with the times.

          • feloniousgrammar

            You are doing no such thing. You just keeping talking about yourself as if everyone here should consider you to be more important than any other person or group of people.

          • spiderbucket

            But how can I NOT be more important to the people who I oppress ? Of course, I am. You say it yourself. Are you flip-flopping now ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not about YOU . Try to grok that.

          • spiderbucket

            Is this Roxane Gay ? You crazy, kid.

          • don

            I know. I have issues. I hear there are programs for that ;). But, I don’t qualify.

          • spiderbucket

            Take a year of community college and you’ll be good as gold.

          • don

            You mean “good as bitcoin” don’t you?

          • spiderbucket

            You got me there.

          • Robert Scalzi

            you are a fucking idiot

          • spiderbucket

            What is your tumblr, so I can compare ?

          • Robert Scalzi

            shut the Fuck up Donny -

          • spiderbucket

            Dude, that sounds like a great line from a cult movie that could be quoted or even memed ! I bet you are the only one to think of it. sorta like your other ideas.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Spiderbucket, you’ve already revealed that you’re not here to engage in honest debate. And you haven’t engaged in honest debate. What is your purpose in this discussion? By the way, I replied to your Woolwich link on the militia post and also asked for your input (in the interest of productive discourse) on the Hutaree. Check it out. Discuss.

          • spiderbucket

            You just told me that I have not engaged in honest debate, though. I will see if I can get to those comments. Thanks.

    • GrafZeppelin127

      Aren’t “the people” smarter than the lawyers, the judges, and the legislatures at least sometimes?

      No.

    • CL Nicholson

      Aren’t “the people” smarter than the lawyers, the judges, and the legislatures at least sometimes?

      That’s a nice and very American sentiment – but in the reality the answer is “NO”. The populace doesn’t know more about the law and government than people who study law and governance. You wouldn’t drop off your car to any random person a street or get heart surgery from some lady who used to watch “General Hospital”?

      • spiderbucket

        I agree with this !

      • Simon Saez

        I take it that you listen to the Center for American Progress as though they are experts on anything, as opposed to propagandists.

        • CL Nicholson

          And I take you listen to Fox News – a network renown for its subject matter experts and fact finding abilities? Or have a PhD from the El-Rushbo University of American Politics – with a concentration on Dittohead Group Think?

          • Simon Saez

            Umm, no! You need to stop thinking in terms of dichotomies where “if you’re not X, then you must be Y.”

            Just because I criticize the Democrats and Obama does not mean I am a Republican (far from it, in fact).

            You want to talk about groupthink? How about the brain dead Democrats blindly supprting corporatist warmonger Clinton for 2016? That is a real travesty.

          • CL Nicholson

            “Corporatist Warmonger”? Huh, most normal humans don’t use those words in a sentence. Just calling her a ‘DC insider’ would work just fine. So, its even worse than being a dittohead – you’re clearly in the Glenn Greenwald/Noam Chomsky camp of fanfic politics. No politician who could win office is good enough for your purity test.

            Oh, ye Occupy Wall Street Apostle. Nothing says power to the people than milllennial yuppie spawn screaming about being the common man.

            Well God Bless You Sir – you’re probably even more guilty of groupthink than the Tea Party loons. They have degrees of wacky. You’re single gear bike of kook.

          • Simon Saez

            Your comment contained absolutely no substance at all, and was merely a kaleidoscope of insults.

            You know nothing about what I have done, and what activist movements I joined or took part in.

            How am I guilty of groupthink, when I am one of the few at the DB calling out the blind Democratic partisanship? You seem to be talking about yourself.

            I struggle every day to try to inject some sense into the people who are stricken by the groupthink, who believe “you’re either with us, or against us,” just as I am doing now, but of course, you just think the only two options are the big business parties, but I am trying to say that there is another way, and there are other political parties.

            I get so sick of when people use the term “purity test” as though somehow I am asking too much to have a President who sides with the people over the large banks and the military-industrial complex.

          • CL Nicholson

            You know nothing about what I have done, and what activist movements I joined or took part in.

            Oooh, the movements you joined or took part in? Impress me – or better, make a hashtag against me. ;-)

    • Kerry Reid

      Which of Ron Paul’s racist newsletters was your particular favorite?

  • formerlywhatithink

    Want see Rand run? Tell him you’re a dreamer.

    • Scopedog

      Check Driftglass’ site. He has a wonderful set of pics of Rand running.

  • spiderbucket

    “fueled by easily-deceived, privileged voters on the left” or those of us tired of the same old bullshit. He will get my vote of any DEM I can see on the horizon. You better keep writing these articles because there are a lot of us. Make the decision easier and go ahead and tell us how you don’t need the vote of the cis straight white privileged middle age male. You’ve cried wolf so many times now that no one cares.

    • feloniousgrammar

      The “the cis straight white privileged middle age male” who doesn’t give a fuck about blacks, or minorities, women the elderly, the disabled, or the poor?

      Fuck you and the horse you rode in on you misogynist, ageist, racist piece of shit.

      • formerlywhatithink

        Wholeheartedly agree.

      • Kerry Reid

        Well, Romney won 60 percent of the white vote and it wasn’t enough to get him in office, so let the crybaby Privilege Boys cry.

        • spiderbucket

          Maybe next time it will be 70% or more. We’ll see.

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            Sure. Considering that a large percent of those 60% probably voted against Obama just because he’s black, I wouldn’t count on that number going up.

          • spiderbucket

            No ? What about the horribly racist people who voted for him the first two times ? You’ve taken them for granted.

          • NW10

            Cliven Bundy voted for Obama twice?

          • spiderbucket

            Nope. But I did. Were you even old enough to vote in 2004 ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            Jokes make you angry, huh? Seems you might be at the wrong party. Do you need help finding the door?

          • spiderbucket

            No, I’m having a blast. You’ve been fun to hang out with. I think we would be great friends if it were not for all of my faults. But I bet you have lots of friends and loved ones. I wish I did so I could be as happy with myself as you are.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Oh, what an offense that I’m happy with myself— I’m not a “cis straight white privileged middle age male.” I’m a WOMAN! A white woman who believes that black woman deserve much better. How dare I!

          • spiderbucket

            I’m so sorry, sweet cheeks.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Spider, you’ve made a great to-do about how happy you are. I’m interested to know how you treat the happiness of others – especially when you vote. Do you ever vote, say, against your personal interest if doing so would increase the happiness of many others?

          • NW10

            Actually I was. First election I was eligible for, and I voted for John Kerry, and I’m glad I did. GWB’s second term was an unconscionable disaster, and I followed up by voting for Obama twice. I voted straight (D) every election except 2012, when no Democrat was running against my Congressman, Doug Lamborn. But this time around, I get to vote for a retired AF general who is running as a Democrat and actually stands a reasonable chance of winning.

          • spiderbucket

            Well, I am gonna try this smug thing on and tell you I’ve been voting since Mondale. Straight ticket every single time. Probably not a smart thing to do but I was voting more against bad ideas than for ideas that sounded nice on paper. This time I may have to weigh bad ideas vs ideas that even sound stupid on paper.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Ideas?

          • Sabyen91

            Heh, so…Obama fooled you twice?! And now you are just as sure about Rand. Will you EVER not be a tool?

          • spiderbucket

            Nope. Not sure at all about Rand Paul. But am sure about a change.

          • spiderbucket

            You equate white Obama voters with Clive Bundy and you don’t see the problem ?

          • Regina Wanassa

            This point has no bearing on the question. The point is that Voter ID laws disenfranchise more than one segment of the population – the population that likely wouldn’t vote Conservative-LIbertarian. They’re unjust and bigoted laws whatever form they take.

          • Kerry Reid

            Now if only women and black people voted for white Democratic men in large percentages — oh. They totally do.

          • feloniousgrammar

            That’s why Republicans are working so hard on voter disenfranchisement. It’s all fine and good until Republicans lose democratically, then suddenly they’re a minority. Boo hoo, boo hoo, boo hoo. Cheaters gotta cheat.

          • spiderbucket

            It’s funny that white people can be artificially created, live in caves and walk on all fours but have managed to take over the world and maintain supremacy. What is it about them that gives them this power ? Maybe they keep coming up with ideas like having to have some ID to vote ? Seems like no one can think of how to get out of this conundrum. Seems like their might be an easy way to combat this outrageous ploy.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Oh, so you think Caucasians are naturally and obviously superior to other classifications of human beings catalogued by the British Empire. How convenient for you. Don’t have anything else to be proud of?

          • spiderbucket

            Well, I’m no so sure about ‘naturally’ be grafted and all. But yeah, if being superior is because I can produce an ID card to vote, then yeah – I am proud of that. It must be hell to be so unfortunate.

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            See, this shows that you just don’t get it. Lots of people, mostly older and minority but even a good number of college students don’t have an “approved ID” and actually are “so unfortunate”. And getting an ID isn’t always as easy as you make it out to be. Getting one can cost time and money. Not everyone is as mobile or has as much disposable income as you do. Ignoring the REALITY behind this isn’t a rational way to look at the issue.

            And the fact that voter fraud is a NON-EXISTENT problem means that we shouldn’t be throwing up ANY barriers to voting, the basic right of our Democracy.

            Why should anyone be making it more difficult to vote if there’s no problem? Oh yeah, to disadvantage people who might vote against them.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Have I said recently how much I love mail-in ballots. I can go through everything on the ballot in my home, sweet home, in my own good time, and can look things up while doing it. We should all be able to do this.

          • Kerry Reid

            I did that all the time when I lived in San Francisco. For one thing, there are so damn many ballot initiatives in California that it was a night’s work going through all of them. ;)

          • feloniousgrammar

            I plan to GOTV in October, and I really, really hope there’s a ballot measure to have and fund bus service on Saturdays. I rarely need a bus, and am fortunate enough to be able to afford cab rides every month, but this is a city of over a quarter mil that doesn’t have weekend bus service.

            And I want to register people at the transit mall.

          • Kerry Reid

            Election Day is a holiday in other countries. No reason we couldn’t do the same. And if I recall correctly, Oregon uses vote-by-mail as the standard electoral mechanism and there haven’t been widespread accounts of fraud.

          • condew

            Mail-in ballots make it so much easier to sell your vote. The buyer can even verify your vote and mail it in for you! And nobody would ever throw away large numbers of ballots based on the zip code they came from.

          • spiderbucket

            Oh, I get it. You just think that since I do not agree with you that I don’t get it. What I don’t get is how come you just don’t knock over this problem by just helping people get ‘approved ID.’ Would that not defeat the supposed purpose of denying anyone a vote ?

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            You think imposing an economic burden on your political opponents through legislation is acceptable?

            Why should anyone have to spend time and money to solve a non-existent problem? Wouldn’t a better solution just to be not to have these voter ID requirements to begin with? I thought conservatives were all about saving money and no regulation? (I kid, of course, hypocritical conservatives will do anything to hurt people they don’t agree with).

          • Kerry Reid

            And then there’s Texas, which was trying to disenfranchise married women unless the name on their ID matched the name on their marriage certificate. But you know — somebody somewhere on the internet said mean things about white men having too much privilege so VENGEANCE SHALL BE THEIRS!!!

          • feloniousgrammar

            I am so glad I left Texas. I. don’t. even. Not even Austin.

          • Regina Wanassa

            But um, isn’t demanding every citizen to have ID kinda like, you know… a police state?

          • Regina Wanassa

            Truth will out. At least you’re being honest now. That’s an improvement.

          • Regina Wanassa

            “The right of voting for persons charged with the execution of laws that govern society is inherent in the word liberty, and constitutes the equality of personal rights.”
            ~ Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice

            “The right of voting for representatives is the primary right by which other rights are protected. To take away this right is to reduce a man to slavery.”
            ~ Thomas Paine, Dissertations on First Principles of Government

            Here’s one place you can ponder privilege in American society, Spider. Why are you demanding citizens less fortunate than you bear an onerous burden to exercise their right to vote? Why are you demanding all citizens conform to your level of ability?

          • Kerry Reid

            You forgot to add “You’ll be sorry!” and “I never asked to be born!”

        • condew

          If you work at it, maybe you can reduce that 40% of the white vote that Dems got to zero.

          • Kerry Reid

            Work at what? How? Racist asswipes decided that they weren’t gonna vote for the black dude — even if he was the one who would serve their overall economic interests more. White men have been viewed as the Holy Grail of electoral politics for years and years and years and have been catered to on those grounds. And then 2012 proved that they were not, in fact, The Most Important Voters in the Whole Wide World. So pardon me if I don’t feel like donning the kneepads and kissing their asses now. They can vote however they like — what they cannot do is assume that they deserve primacy over other voting blocs.

          • spiderbucket

            Work at losing the rest of the middle is what he means. You don’t go and tell people that they are racist even if they voted for a black man – twice. Then tell them that they are privileged and cannot possibly understand the issues. Then tell them that even when they do help – it’s because they have a white savior complex. Just cut right to “Fuck you and the horse you rode in on you misogynist, ableist, ageist, racist piece of shit” and save us all the time.

          • spiderbucket

            This.

          • Kerry Reid

            Threat or promise? And how big is that ball you’re threatening to take home if we don’t privilege your feelings over our most basic rights? And is a Nihilist Hissy Fit (“I’ll burn it all down and THEN you’ll be sorry!”) your usual response to having your hegemony mildly challenged on the internet? (As opposed to, say, having your voting rights and reproductive healthcare access challenged.)

            Frankly, I think it’s healthier for the republic that we get away from the notion that white male voters are the Holy Grail that must be catered to above all. Most of the people I’ve voted for and campaigned for in my lifetime have been white men. But they were white men who understood that there historic and structural barriers for non-white and non-male people in this country. Such as, oh, the right to vote in the first damn place. And they were dedicated in some way to addressing those systemic injustices.

          • spiderbucket

            So, let’s get all the white men on the SAME side ? That will show them.

          • Kerry Reid

            Yes. That will happen. Right after the PUMAs get those “18 million strong” to hand the election to McCain in 2008.

          • Kerry Reid

            Most Democratic-voting white men aren’t as stupid and self-involved as you. But I’m not surprised solipsism is your go-to rhetorical Maginot Line.

      • spiderbucket

        Thus proving my point. Thanks ! This will be my first time voting straight GOP. Much easier now.

        Enjoy your misery. I’m gonna go enjoy some privilege.

        • feloniousgrammar

          You always do that, you just think it’s YOU.

          And I’m not the least bit miserable, you piece of shit.

          • spiderbucket

            Whatever that means. Don’t worry about me – there are important issues for you to attend to like ‘cultural appropriation’ and how many more letters need to be added to LBGTQ or what pronouns to use for your made up gender. These are pressing issues ! And how will you ever help decide what to call each other ? Just SC – that’s easy enough.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Why would I worry about you? Par for the course that you would even use that expression and hate distinctions that describe different realities. You’re all about you and no one else.

          • spiderbucket

            Again, you nailed it on the head. But I implore you to please take your time and energy to protest Miley Cyrus for twerking. Don’t you know how that is literally destroying the community ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            Yeah— that’s what President Obama and the Democratic members of Congress are concerned with, right now. So we all must be the strawman in your head, right?

            You keep your half-assed little culture war and let it ruin every minute of every day of your life if you like, but most people here are talking about governance for ALL— a democratic concept that does not put ” “the cis straight white privileged middle age male” above all else and grant him authority over others.

          • spiderbucket

            And in order to raise everyone else, you must tear down people who are not like you. Sounds like progress to me ! Man, you are on fire.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Wtf? I’m a white woman.

          • spiderbucket

            Fellow oppressor ! Are you straight too, so we can at least hate on SOME people together. No ? Well, then I will just leave you to your trans hate.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Good try, but won’t resonate with rational people.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Deliberate misrepresentation. You’re moving back into your dishonest mode.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Spot on, Felonious.

          • Regina Wanassa

            You’re still here, Spider? What a surprise. Starting on another round of antagonism and instigation, I see. Maybe by the end of this little tirade you’ll decide to vote straight GOP and enjoy some privilege.

        • Scopedog

          You’ve always been able to enjoy your ‘privilege’…but I guess when the Black Guy became President you got scared, right?

          • spiderbucket

            Yeah, when I voted for him I was mistaken in thinking that since he was a ‘half white sell out’ that he would be more for rich white people like myself. According to some – he is. I’m so confused.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Confusion is easily alleviated with the opening of the mind.

        • WiscoJoe

          You exhibit classic traits of anti-social personality disorder (in non-politically correct terms that means you appear to be a sociopath).

          There is treatment out there for you. It’s okay to ask for help if you need it. I can sense that you are crying out for attention and recognition. It must be painful. Please take care of yourself so that you can once again join the rest of society in caring for others.

          • spiderbucket

            You’ve hurt my feels AND you did not use the proper pronouns. What kind of fucked up cishet is that ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            Is there some new second-person pronoun out?

          • spiderbucket

            You tell me. It means more to you than I. I just want to come correct.

          • WiscoJoe

            Best of luck to you. You don’t have to be terrified of strawmen. You have the power to overcome paranoia and fear of others.

          • spiderbucket

            That’s easy for you to say – I have to be surrounded by all these white people. Good luck to you as well, comrade.

          • WiscoJoe

            Reactionary politics are sad a thing to behold, but I suppose we all have our priorities in life.

          • spiderbucket

            Yes, they are.

        • Regina Wanassa

          Well, I’m glad you got that out of your system. What a fantastic circular journey you’ve taken us all on. You’re right back to where you were in the beginning. You’re going to vote straight GOP, and you’re going to enjoy some privilege.

          Don’t let the door hit you on your way out. But feel free to re-enter if ever you’re interested in genuine discussion of ideas.

      • woodrowfan

        stands and applauds! AMEN!

    • http://www.osborneink.com/ OsborneInk

      When Putin’s actions result in a new wave of reactionary RW governments in the US and Europe, watch how fast Rand and his fellow “libertarians” leave “liberals” like you holding the Eddie Snowden bag. It will leave you spinning.

      • spiderbucket

        Well, I am told that I will do well with Paul since I am a “misogynist, ableist, ageist, racist piece of shit.” So, either that is a lie/exaggeration/crying wolf or I would be stupid not to vote that way. Which is it ?

        • http://www.osborneink.com/ OsborneInk

          As demonstrated by Steve Kornacki on Maddow’s show last night, Rand is quite capable of changing his position right out from under you.

          But please do go ahead and vote for Rand on that basis. He’s perfect for you, what with his fake ophthalmology association and all.

          • spiderbucket

            Yeah, I watched that too. I never really thought of him as much of a threat but I am seeing the wave of fear. They did the same thing to Christie. All I watch is MSNBC. They tell me all I need to know.

          • NW10

            They did the same thing to Christie.

            “They” made Christie appoint cronies who shut down lanes of traffic a year ago for a supposed traffic study? So much for MSNBC being irrelevant then!

          • spiderbucket

            I mean that they got a hard on for Christie when they thought he was a threat. Now it’s for Paul. It might be for someone we haven’t even though of next. Why doesn’t anyone on the Left just come out and say they are against White Supremacy and the Patriarchy ? That would pretty much cover anyone who does not agree with them. Then it would not matter who is running next time.

          • NW10

            I mean that they got a hard on for Christie when they thought he was a threat. Now it’s for Paul.

            Really, you might want to let Bill O Reilly know he’s on the Left, because he’s going after Rand Paul as well:

            http://www.mediaite.com/tv/oreilly-goes-after-rand-paul-for-dodge-on-israel-position/

          • spiderbucket

            You know more about Bill-O than I do. But this hardly persuades me. If the ultra Right AND the ultra Left agree to be against a candidate – that’s my boy.

          • NW10

            Thing is, Rand Paul is ultra right wing. He’s no different from Ted Cruz or any other wrong winger except that he pretends to be pragmatic. Other than working with Cory Booker, name a thing Senator Poodlehead has been pragmatic on. There are 15 examples on this very thread of Rand not being pragmatic.

          • spiderbucket

            I will weigh him against whomever runs in 2016.

          • Simon Saez

            Even so, Rand is still better than corporatist warmonger HRC, but I am still not voting for either of them.

          • NW10

            Even so, Rand is still better than corporatist warmonger HRC,

            As President, Rand Paul would carry out the wrong wing warmongering line. The warmongers run the Republican Party, and you’re naive if you believe Paul would be any different than GWB regarding foreign policy. Mrs. Clinton on the other hand has been an excellent diplomat as Secretary of State, and it’s because of her and President Obama that we haven’t sent any troops to bomb the heck out of these other countries like McCain and Romney would have.

          • Simon Saez

            You seem to be forgetting about the NATO operation in Libya, as well as the fact that HRC said she might keep troops in Afghanistan beyond 2016.

            Yes, you are probably right that Rand’s dovishness is not enough to overcome the warmongering prevalent in the GOP, but that doesn’t excuse HRC’s hawkishness.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Under your scenario your candidate would likely be a boy. Probably a good decision for you.

          • Regina Wanassa

            You keep shifting and twisting, Spider.

            You’ve not noticed that the rational Left is pretty open about opposing White Supremacy and Patriarchy?

    • Sean Richardson

      Can you be more specific about which things in this article are “crying wolf”? Which positions of Rand Paul’s are incorrectly expressed?

      • spiderbucket

        “Fuck you and the horse you rode in on you misogynist, ableist, ageist, racist piece of shit.”

        Regardless of Rand Paul’s views on anything – THIS is why I won’t vote DEM again. They feel the same way about anyone who fits that description even if they don’t make the kind of decision I am.

        • i_a_c

          Yeah, forget Rand Paul’s policies, I’m basing my vote on blog comments I don’t like!

          Good grief.

          • spiderbucket

            And Salon. HuffPO, MSBNC, Daily Beast, Daily Banter, Daily Kos, etc. etc. It was easier to pull a quick example from the comments. Very predictable right down to the insults. And it does not matter if it’s Rand Paul as long as it’s not a progressive. Maybe losing some elections will straighten things out and get real again.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Progressives haven’t been in power for many decades. What needs to reverse is our current Conservative-Libertarian trend.

        • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

          Yes, that’s rational. Vote against your own economic self-interest by voting in dumbass, obstructionist Republicans because someone called you a name on the Internet.

          • Simon Saez

            Here we go again. You talk about people voting against their own economic interests (by voting GOP), then imply that it is in their interests to vote Democratic, without even bothering to explain how it is in working people’s best interests to vote for EITHER of the big business parties. Democrats gave us NAFTA, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, and the number of people living in poverty has INCREASED under a Democratic administration. Please tell me how voting for Democrats is in the best interests of working class people. And don’t tell me that it’s because Democrats are slightly better than the GOP (true as it may be), because ‘slightly better’ is still far short of what working class Americans need.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Some good points there, Simon except you neglect to mention that Democrats assented to Republican ideas with NAFTA and repealing Glass-Steagall. Poverty has increased because of long term Conservative-Libertarian policy. Going with strictly Republican ideas isn’t rational unless you intend to reform the Republican Party from within with your vote in which case more power to you. While they’re scrambling for your vote, be sure to tell the GOP that you expect them to embrace solidly pro-choice policies and undo all the damage they’ve done thus far with obstructionism and regressiveness.

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            Please tell me how voting for Democrats is in the best interests of working class people.

            If you can’t see the difference between the racist, misogynist Republicans and the vast majority of Congressional Democrats, then I can’t help you.

            Here’s a few thoughts, though, on why it would be in your economic interest if Democrats controlled both Houses in 2015.

            They would pass:

            An increase in the minimum wage.
            Extended unemployment benefits.
            Wage equality legislation.
            Infrastructure projects to create jobs and keep our bridges from killing us.
            Fixes to Obamacare to extend benefits and fix the contraceptive loophole.

            Each and every one of which would have positive economic benefits to America. And if there were NOTHING else, that would be enough, because the Republicans will do absolutely none of these things.

          • Simon Saez

            I do not dispute that Democrats are better on economic issues than Repugs, but they are still controlled by big business interests.

            All those things you mentioned would be great, however, given that they didn’t do those things in 2009-2010, I am a bit skeptical as to whether I ought to trust them to do them if they regain control of Congress next year.

            Why didn’t they make minimum wage a living wage in 2009-2010? Why didn’t they pass single-payer health care? Had they passed single payer, the GOP would have nothing to say about it that they are not saying now, and we would actually have something to show for it: everyone would be covered.

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            Really? You don’t know?

            Blue Dog Democrats, stupid 60 vote requirement, obstruction.

            That’s why. That they voted through Obamacare, which took an entire year if you recall, is a minor miracle.

            You’re skeptical that they won’t do those things but your solution is to vote for people who absolutely WON’T vote for those things and will actually do everything they can to wreck the economy further?

            This “purity” test nonsense isn’t helping.

          • Simon Saez

            I never advised voting for Republicans at any point in this thread!

            I don’t apply purity tests. No one is perfect. I just want someone who will side with the people over the large banks and military-industrial complex, and neither Obama nor HRC fits that description.

            Rand would probably be preferable to HRC in 2016, but only by a hair, which is certainly not enough to get me to vote for him. Just like how Obama was preferable to Romney in 2012, but only by a hair, which was why I did not vote for him either.

            Bernie Sanders (who is not perfect, of course) is the best option for 2016. He speaks to the needs of the average American, as opposed to HRC, who served on the board of directors of Walmart, and is going to ram the TPP through, which will be utter devastation to working people, just like after her husband signed NAFTA.

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            Fair enough.

            I think Obama has met that test far more than any other President in my lifetime, despite an insanely obstructionist congress. That you see only a hairs difference between him and Romney is astonishing.

            I’m not a big fan of HRC, but she is infinitely preferable to Rand Paul. Paul would be a disaster in every way. His few positions that marginally overlap with liberal interests would not be worth the risk.

          • Regina Wanassa

            … and after not actually engaging in any exchange of ideas….

        • Regina Wanassa

          Call me Nostradamus, but here we are again. Spider won’t be voting Dem. Thank goodness it didn’t take such an arduous and labyrinthine path to get here this time.

    • Scopedog

      Thanks, dudebro. Nice to know that you’d gladly let others get screwed over by Paul’s policies, but that’s pretty much par for the course with you jokers, right?

      • spiderbucket

        Yep, that’s what us Last Century Liberals are doing now. “Progressives” and SJW’s have divided us so much that we have no choice but to chose a side. Guys like me are despised for our race, age, gender, and whatever the latest bullshit trend dictates. No consideration of our votes or what we have done as allies in the past. The hate that steered me toward Carter in the 70’s is nearly identical to what is driving me away now. Progressives act like all of this stuff is new and their anger and idealism will fix everything while they just alienate anyone who is not in lock step with them. With every comment, I feel better and better about my decision.

        • NW10

          Progressives act like all of this stuff is new and their anger and idealism will fix everything while they just alienate anyone who is not in lock step with them.

          Sounds more like you’re describing the very GOP you say you’re voting for.

          • spiderbucket

            No, I’m not voting FOR anything. I am voting against like I have always done.These comments show who is truly angry, don’t ya think ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            You think every response to you here is angry? I’m guessing most are just not that into you, no matter how much you think we owe you.

            Go, on— there are plenty of places on the internet to play “the real victim”.

          • spiderbucket

            I’m no victim, dude. I am grateful for what I have. And I’m pretty happy. You should try it – it’s very liberating.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Oh, I’m very happy. It’s you who is here arguing with everyone about how put upon you are.

          • spiderbucket

            I’m not put upon at all. Why would I be ? I am part of an elite club and have everything in the world under my control. Like – I demand that you submit to me and never accomplish anything in your life. I demand that you stay bitter. I demand that you spend every waking hour thinking about me and how I persecute you. See, how easy that was ? Priv’s rule.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Your demands make me laugh.

          • spiderbucket

            But you comply.

          • feloniousgrammar

            How so? I haven’t noticed.

          • spiderbucket

            All of my demands have already been met.

          • Regina Wanassa

            So now you can go back and stay on topic? That would be a pleasing change.

          • condew

            Could have fooled me. Or maybe you just turned off everyone who is not a racist, sexist black woman and so this site is pretty much reserved for venting, racist, sexist black women. Anybody else who shows up is therefore “arguing with everyone”.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Your thinking is pretty loopy, dude. You think by acknowledging racism and sexism that I am racist and sexist, you got a screw loose.

          • spiderbucket

            I didn’t know you were black or a womyn. But I can tell that you are not happy. Just do your best and quit looking for excuses to be angry all the time. There are more injustices in the world than there are words and we can get swept up in the futility of it all. It does feel like shit is falling apart and it’s scary. But hating on people that do not agree with you is destructive. Maybe you agree on 50% – isn’t that better than nothing ? What if you managed to affect change with that other person even on a small issue ? Isn’t that better than not working with them at all ?

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            It’s easy to say that when you’re not the one being shit on.

            I don’t see any unjust anger from feloniousgrammar. She’s reacting to asshattery that takes away her rights. I’m angry at the same things, but I don’t have as much personal experience in them because I’m a middle-aged white guy and, goddamn it, I have been pretty privileged just because of that. And that is wrong.

          • feloniousgrammar

            And, as a white woman I have been privileged and I acknowledge that. It’s not hard for some of us, the way it is for some others, is it?

          • spiderbucket

            Like the women in Iraq or Syria or Nigeria ? Yes, you are privileged as fuck. Be grateful and keep perspective.

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            Like the women in Iraq or Syria or Nigeria ? Yes, you are privileged as fuck. Be grateful and keep perspective.

            See feloniusgrammar, you aren’t the least privileged person on the entire planet so you don’t get to complain when you get paid less and have your rights taken away. Don’t you feel better now?

          • feloniousgrammar

            I think that the best way to achieve parity is for those other women to have equal rights and more privilege.

            Of course, the women of Iraq were half the collegiate and professional population of Iraq and rapists could get the death penalty, but Bush fucked that all up and so now American women are supposed to be grateful for what now?

          • feloniousgrammar

            Be grateful? You can go fuck yourself. I’m not “honey” or “sweetbritches” you smug and stupid little bitch. I do not have to put up with anything the women in those countries put up with, except perhaps for the prissy little bitches like YOU who live in those countries who are always whining about how no woman will suck their dick.

          • spiderbucket

            What can YOU do about your middle age ? What about your skin color ? I GUESS you can do something about your gender, but what are we supposed to do other than feel guilty about shit we cannot control ? What rights have been taken away from feloniousgrammer ? Being empathetic to other people’s lives and the differences between them and ours is not a bad thing – but it is not going to happen by ranting at them about how good they have it. Isn’t that the same thing as NOT being empathetic ? I keep reading things about how we are supposed to ‘check our privilege” but no one knows what the fuck that even means. Because they do not want solutions. They want drama. They want to feel that they are fighting the man. But they are only fighting each other. The Man loves this.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Well, a mature response to criticism of any kind would be self-reflection and commitment to understanding what you’ve acknowledged you don’t understand. If you don’t know what the fuck something means – like white privilege – ask with the intent to receive.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Your antagonism inhibits cooperative discussion, Spider.

          • Regina Wanassa

            True.

          • NW10

            I am voting against like I have always done.

            Then that makes you a wrong winger, wrong wingers always vote against something. Being a progressive, I vote for meaningful progress. I vote to care for the less fortunate, I vote to support women, I vote for gays/lesbians to have equality in this country, which is why I continue to support and vote for Democrats.

          • spiderbucket

            ‘Wrong Winger’ is a great term. Can I appropriate that ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            You epitomize it, no further action is required on your part.

          • Regina Wanassa

            People generally express anger when instigated and provoked or when confronted with disingenuous chicanery.

        • Ashes Defacto

          Being the good little Republican troll that you are then you know all about the division of this country. BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT YOU ARE ALL ABOUT SHITHEAD!

          • spiderbucket

            Yeah, I am the embodiment of ‘white privilege.’ My very presence is divisive to you. And causes your caps lock to stay on. I have this magical cloak of invisibility and I am the one to blame for your miserable life. I think we can agree on that, so why you mad ?

          • feloniousgrammar

            No one here has said anything here about having a miserable life. Your need to project is duly noted.

          • spiderbucket

            Why are you so angry ? It’s not even possible for me to be miserable, remember ? Life is easy and uncomplicated for my people of the pale god of oppression.

          • Ashes Defacto

            Down voted for being stupid and a good example of a lack of self awareness.

            A better question is why do insecure conservative weasels need to troll liberal website and project all their miserable problems on total strangers?

          • spiderbucket

            Because we have ran out of ideas on how to oppress you, obviously. We already have you convinced that you have no chance for a happy life. This is just icing on the cake.

          • feloniousgrammar

            I think he might need medication.

          • spiderbucket

            How ableist of you, honey britches.

        • StephenMeansMe

          Dude, unless you’re running for student-body president at a liberal arts college, social-justice warriors don’t have any political power. (Source: Am at a liberal arts college.)

          Whereas the racism on the right is blatant and actionable. Nice job deluding yourself though.

          • spiderbucket

            I disagree with the first paragraph. We can name names if you like, but I don’t see such people as not having any power. But they don’t feel like they have any either, so it’s confusing.

            Yeah, I agree that guys like Jesse Helms and Reagan and Nixon (obviously) and David Duke and well, pretty much all the marquee names are/were pretty racist. But I feel that people who use minority issues in a way to further their cause or deflect accountability from themselves is worse. There’s enough stupidity to go around. Surrounding yourself with smug liberals from ivy league schools seems to be counter intuitive. Even someone like Joan Walsh is called out by upcoming aggrieved silver spooned Melissa Harris-Perry for being racist for questioning some of the POTUS’s policies. Seems blatant to me.

            You know how there are Jews who disagree with Israel ? Not sure if you knew – but that IS permitted. Free speech is my number one concern politically/socially and there is no room for that anymore.

            http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/

          • StephenMeansMe

            Jesse Helms and Reagan and Nixon (obviously) and David Duke and well, pretty much all the marquee names are/were pretty racist. But I feel that people who use minority issues in a way to further their cause or deflect accountability from themselves is worse.

            Hahaha you what

        • feloniousgrammar

          Oh, Christ on a jetski, those pesky “others” think that issues that concern them and their lives are as important as the white man’z.

          Boo fucking hoo, storm off in a snit while pretending that you seriously considered voting Democratic, but we who would not recognize your right to dismiss all other issues— those that don’t make the concerns (no matter how trivial) of “the cis straight white privileged middle age male” the alpha and omega. We have failed in our supposed duty to put you on a pedestal.

          You poor privileged thing— it’s so hard to get good service these days, isn’t it?

          Why don’t you give yourself a blow job?

          • spiderbucket

            No, I’m great ! Life is good. I believe that racism, sexism, homophobia are all real issues that deserve serious consideration. The operative word is ‘serious.’ For example, you’ve shown more racism here in these comments than I’ve heard from Rand Paul. But I can’t have opinions on these matters anyway, so I will just focus on doing things like taking care of the fam and doing my job and paying my taxes. The kind of stuff you don’t need to worry about.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Sure you do. Uh huh. Just as long as nobody acknowledges racism.

          • spiderbucket

            No chance that can ever happen. Don’t worry.

          • StephenMeansMe

            If you care about “serious” politics, I would reconsider voting for the party who incessantly blathered on about impeaching the President for using executive orders, then claimed impeachment talk was actually just the strategy of the other party, and advised the President to use executive orders to solve the border crisis.

            So serious, that crowd.

          • spiderbucket

            Like I said, I am voting ‘against’ more than I am voting ‘for.’

          • NW10

            Which lumps you in with the Tea Party crackpots, they do nothing but vote against crap and never advocate a single thing of what they are for, besides God and guns.

          • spiderbucket

            Sure, lump me in with them. Aren’t we all here talking about Rand Paul and how he is going to set us back into the 50’s ? You are certainly going to vote against that if you believe it. We don’t even know who is running yet and you are talking about things you are against more than what you support.

          • NW10

            Because Rand Paul hasn’t advocated anything he supports, besides repealing the decades worth of progress by Democrats.

          • StephenMeansMe

            If the Democrats are bad to you, the GOP is surely worse. And by “worse” I mean “in the throes of utter insanity.”

          • Regina Wanassa

            I’m calling into question your evaluative skill. Your inability to recognize Rand Paul’s bigotry aside, please describe the racism that you have observed.

          • 1933john

            LOL at this one!

        • Kerry Reid

          I think you’re lost, pal. The Men’s Rights meeting is in the next room.

          • spiderbucket

            Thanks ! Where is the meeting for people who don’t need a group to think for them ?

          • Regina Wanassa

            That meeting is in the antechamber with the adjacent door to the room for people who pretend to think for themselves. The room is labeled: “Notoriously Disaffected.” You’ll be welcomed and in good company, I’m sure.

        • feloniousgrammar

          Good. Take that with you when you go.

          • condew

            I find I agree with felonious on most issues, but her constant, unbridled racism and sexism actually has me agreeing with the libertarian on this one. I would not have believed that a political ally like you could be so repulsive, but it is true. People like you, feloniousgrammer, will lose the next election for us because you cannot stop attacking your allies. People like spiderbucket will merely be annoyances.

          • feloniousgrammar

            What are you talking about?

          • feloniousgrammar

            What “allies” am I attacking?

          • feloniousgrammar

            You don’t need to agree with me about anything, thank goodness, I don’t want you on my side. If you don’t understand structural racism and misogyny and the violence they do— if you don’t even want to try to understand it; then we’re not allies.

          • spiderbucket

            “I don’t want you on my side.”

            Here it is, BAM!

            Every single comment I have made here today is about THIS.

          • spiderbucket

            People like spiderbucket would not be commenting here if you were wrong about “unbridled racism and sexism” and pissing on political allies. Trust.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Why is Spiderbucket here?

          • http://taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com/ Ipecac

            What the hell are you talking about?

          • spiderbucket

            Have you not been paying attention to this thread ?

        • Regina Wanassa

          And choose a side you should. Choose wisely. Your mischaracterization of being despised for race, age, gender, and whatever may likely come back to haunt you once realize where the politics of hate, fear, and aggression are generated. Those are the politics of Conservative-Libertarianism.

    • i_a_c

      Yes, privileged. I’m sorry that word makes you uncomfortable.

      Rand Paul’s economic and social policies are Republican boilerplate and sometimes a little worse. If he got the chance, he would privatize social security and medicare, reduce aid to the needy. Et cetera. On the social side he is not a fan of the Civil Rights Act, is anti-gay, anti-women’s rights, etc.

      So yes, voting for Rand Paul pretty much means you’re okay with the consequences that could befall the elderly, poor, minorities, women, or gay, especially for those on the left who were ostensibly concerned about those things until Rand Paul ranted about drones.

      • spiderbucket

        Whatever you say, homie. I don’t get uncomfortable with concepts made up by people who dedicate their lives to and make money from seeking out racism. Or people who get butt hurt over white belly dancers. Or radfems or any of the other children who haven’t even figured out their own sexual orientation, but want to tell us about the history of oppression. Unless you are at least 50 years old, you cannot understand the progress that’s been made. Too worried about other people to be grateful on any level. If more of that is coming – then I feel pretty good about voting against it.

        • Churchlady320

          I am over 50, and I know what progress has been made and what has not and, more important, who is fighting violently to undo that progress.

          • spiderbucket

            Me too ! Thus my new position.

          • Kerry Reid

            Which would be the one of “head stuck up ass.”

          • spiderbucket

            Not sure, but I bet you can tell me.

          • Kerry Reid

            So did your University of Phoenix degree include a course on “I know you are, but what am I?”

          • spiderbucket

            No, I majored in Social Justice and it didn’t teach me shit.

          • Kerry Reid

            Clearly.

          • feloniousgrammar

            They’re talking about colored people and women! What about me? What about ME!!!? What about what I want?!?!?!

          • Kerry Reid

            Why isn’t there a White History Month?!?! Or Men’s History Month?

          • Regina Wanassa

            Yes, that your Social Justice major at University of Phoenix didn’t teach you shit is plain for all the world to see.

          • condew

            “Social Justice” sounds like a cake course for those who can’t really handle history, so they just rewrite it to say what they want it to say, which is “I’m OK, and nobody else is.”

          • spiderbucket

            Who is that you speak of specifically ?

          • Regina Wanassa

            And your experience is appreciated. Thank you for commenting, Churchlady.

        • i_a_c

          Mainstream Republican policy actually has a measurable negative impact on the groups I mentioned above, but you’re worried about a handful of people with no political influence. Okay.

          • spiderbucket

            The ‘handful of people’ are running the show now, Skippy. And I am not sure if Rand Paul is a mainstream republican or not. But do you know what is worse for young people than whatever middling change will come by another party ? Telling them that they are screwed from birth and can never get ahead. That’s just one thing, but it’s probably the worst.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Yes, you are right. Telling young people they’re screwed from birth is an awful thing, and probably up there in the top 5 reasons not to vote for Rand Paul.

        • CL Nicholson

          You do realize that almost no one buys into that Salon-style liberal comic book rationale you laid out, right? Especially on this site. One of the editors makes it a point to regularly mock the super left for their navel gazing.

          In fact the kind of self-deluded oppression porn fetishists you describe are the very type of politically neophytes and cynics who think that Rand Paul is the ‘New Left’ because he whines about Drones and Dope.

          • spiderbucket

            I wish this was true. But it is seeping into policy. Rand Paul is just my placeholder for right now. We will see what happens in 2016. Meanwhile, I need to see who has my best interests in mind for 2014 Fall.

          • CL Nicholson

            Who has your best interest? Do you like drinking water and clean air?

          • spiderbucket

            Yes ! That’s a real issue to consider. I don’t see much in the way of discussing that in the article or the comments. Which is my point.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Ah, and the dishonesty returns. Nice technique you learned from Rand Paul and Libertarians in particular: Refuse to engage.

          • Regina Wanassa

            What about everybody else’s best interests? Would you be interested in that candidate?

        • Regina Wanassa

          making money from seeking out racism? Now that’s inventive. A golden boor star for you, Spider.

          Are you well schooled enough in the history of oppression to school us? I mean, are you poised to actually engage ideas?

    • Bosma

      No one cares indeed. Buh-bye now…

    • feloniousgrammar

      Rand Paul is no friend of the Left, and neither are you, so if you don’t want any negative feedback and want to quit whining about it, then why don’t you piss off to a white, male, cisgendered website where the “race card” is simply not “played” because white supremacy is maintained there?

      • spiderbucket

        We agree ! White people are no friend of The Left. So, why would you want our votes anyway ? I don’t give a shit about negative feedback. I stand by what I said.

        • feloniousgrammar

          You seem to be the only person here who doesn’t see what a transparent racist you are, which is not surprising.

          • spiderbucket

            Hey, if that’s what it’s called these days – I guess I am. You and I agree on so much. I don’t understand the hostility and it’s kind of triggering me.

          • feloniousgrammar

            You don’t understand that I’m dismissing with the same casual disregard with which you dismiss everyone but “”the cis straight white privileged middle age male” except that I don’t feel put upon or excited while doing so.

            If you must believe that my blood pressure is going up right now and that my heart is racing with rage, by all means, you seem to need to believe that people here on this lefty website take you so very seriously that we would wreck our peace for you and you can’t believe that we’re happy.

            Whatever, dude.

          • spiderbucket

            I don’t think you quite understand the word, ‘Peace.’

          • feloniousgrammar

            Tell me, bright boy, what is it about “peace” that you think I don’t quite understand? You think because I don’t kiss your admittedly white supremacist male ass that I don’t feel calm and confident? You think I suffer from the same bullshit concerns that keep you coming back to this space where you aren’t indulged? You think I’ll storm into my kitchen in a minute and get another cup of coffee while being filled with bad feelings over you?

            Get over yourself.

          • Kerry Reid

            Losing the Dixiecrats was such a bad thing for the Democratic Party. Oh wait — no. No, it wasn’t.

          • feloniousgrammar

            No it wasn’t, was it?

          • spiderbucket

            Then why are you so uptight ? You agree with me that I have no place in your ‘tribe,’ so what is the problem exactly ?

          • Kerry Reid

            I’m loose as a goose, sonny. Don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

          • spiderbucket

            You believe in God ? They will come for you too.

          • Kerry Reid

            Right. Because Christians are REALLY oppressed in this culture, what with that War on Christmas.

          • spiderbucket

            You really have a hard time with sarcasm, huh ?

          • Kerry Reid

            You really have a hard time finding your penis with a tweezers and a magnifying glass, huh? Say hi to your PUA Hate Pals.

          • Regina Wanassa

            It would seem the only problems are the ones you are expressing. The only uptight comments on this thread are yours. Maybe you should start all over again. After another incredible journey you might come back to exactly the same point you started with AGAIN. You don’t support Dems, you’ll vote straight GOP, and you are comfortable with your bigotry and white privilege. The only one who is uptight about your situation is you.

            Are you prepared yet to talk about anything other than you?

          • formerlywhatithink

            For christs sake, you lost the argument when you invoked “cis” and now you’ve doubled down with “triggering”.

          • spiderbucket

            Just trying to speak the language, yo.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Try to engage in ideas too. It’s even more fruitful than speaking the language, yo.

          • Regina Wanassa

            Okay, another candid admission. You express bigotry. Another hurdle overcome. Now would be a good moment for you to start engaging in rational exchange.

          • condew

            Pot, meet kettle.

        • Regina Wanassa

          You demonstrate that you don’t give a shit about engaging in productive discourse.

    • muselet

      As a middle-aged, white, hetero cis-male, privilege practically drips off me as I walk (I say it’s privilege, but it’s really just sweat—I did mention the middle-aged bit, yes?). Because of what—not who—I am, I’m more likely to have my opinions taken seriously by others, less likely to be stopped and frisked because I shouldn’t be where I am, less likely to have my right to vote challenged, less likely to get beaten or worse because of who I am, and generally less likely to alarm the wimmen and chilluns.

      That people who aren’t what I am want to be taken seriously, not be automatically suspected of being a crim, not to be physically attacked and all the rest—in short, to be treated as fully human—means maybe I’ll have to drop certain words from my vocabulary so as not to give offense, maybe I’ll have to think harder and work harder in order to compete with bright, qualified people who aren’t like me, and maybe I’ll simply have to learn to live with the fact that not everyone is like me. Those are not terrible sacrifices. Those things would not harm me in any meaningful way. Indeed, I learned most of those things, at least in a general way, when I was in elementary school (remember The Golden Rule?).

      Now, as one middle-aged, white, hetero cis-male to another, I implore you, stop talking. You’re making the rest of the tribe look bad.

      –alopecia

      • spiderbucket

        Ah, tribe. That’s cultural appropriation, brother. And the Golden Rule is one of the tools used by the Christians to subjugate everyone else. You are not too current with progressive thought. I don’t think anyone minds changes they can take upon themselves to be a better person, but they are not obligated. And why do you think so little of people to think that they cannot do for themselves ? Sounds like the savior complex to me. Another no-no.

        • muselet

          –alopecia

        • i_a_c

          And why do you think so little of people to think that they cannot do for themselves?

          And here you are, promoting Rand Paul, who would make it harder for people to do things for themselves if he could.

          But hey, we made 50 years of progress you know, so just pull yourself up by your bootstraps. If you can’t leap the hurdles foisted upon you by Rand Paul and the rest of the GOP, it’s your own fault.

          You know what? Maybe Rand Paul is your guy after all.

          • spiderbucket

            How would he make it harder ? Would he ‘put ‘yall back in chains ?’

          • i_a_c

            Don’t be ridiculous.

            His record speaks for himself on opposing unemployment insurance, putting Medicare in private hands, supports private SS accounts, opposes abortion, opposes affirmative action, etc., all of which would disproportionately impact the poor, elderly, minorities, and other disadvantaged groups.

          • spiderbucket

            Wow, he sounds the exact opposite of everything I believe in. How can that be ? I thought all white people were a monolith ?

          • Regina Wanassa

            Routinely resorting to sarcasm when it becomes difficult to defend a position isn’t helpful to you. Try engaging honestly in the ideas put forth.

          • Regina Wanassa

            My. Perhaps you should alter your handle to read: “Spiderbucket Nader.” Nice homage to Nader’s Uncle Tom.

            Bigot.

        • Regina Wanassa

          If it sounds like savior complex to you then you haven’t given what muselet had to say very much thought. What is articulated there is actually a very powerful founding ideal that underpins our system of government.

        • Regina Wanassa

          oh, by the way. Yes, tribe. What muselet expressed is transcending tribalism. What you’re expressing is succumbing to tribalism.

      • Regina Wanassa

        Thank you for this Muselet. You mirror Benjamin Franklin’s sensibility. The idea that those blessed with more have more responsibility towards those who don’t is foundational to republican democracy.

        • muselet

          Aw shucks, yer makin’ me blush.

          (Besides, you give me too much credit. I was just sick of spiderbucket’s bleating about being unappreciated and oppressed and hated. As Mal Reynolds famously said, “What a whiner.”)

          –alopecia

    • Sabyen91

      Rand IS the same old bullshit. You just aren’t bright enough to see that.

  • Treading_Water

    Yeah, I know he holds to the conservative line on issues like voting rights, civil rights, women’s rights, and LGBTQ rights, and that his views on science, facts, and economics are straight out of the stone age, but he wants to Legalize Pot.

    MMMMMmmm. Pot.

    • Kerry Reid

      Aqua Buddha for Secretary of State!