Jenny McCarthy Can’t Get Away with Denying She’s “Anti-Vaccine”

There’s been a lot of pressure on Jenny McCarthy lately. With every new report that surfaces making it clear that the anti-vaccine movement is causing real damage, helping to resurrect diseases long thought conquered and making full-on outbreaks of measles and mumps a reality in the new millennium, McCarthy takes a public hit. As well she should; in her role as an intellectually violent militant who seems to believe that the ability to have a child brings with it a medical degree, she’s been the face of this anti-vaccine nonsense from the beginning. The more obvious it becomes that her ignorance and arrogance are taking a toll in the lives of innocent people, the more her reputation winds up being on the receiving end of a beating in the media. The articles taking her apart have come at a steady drip over the past few months and a simple question thrown out by her on Twitter last month resulted in an onslaught of angry responses calling her out for her potentially deadly crusade.

So it shouldn’t surprise anyone that she’s now trying to backtrack slightly as a means of answering her many detractors and saving a little face.

In an op-ed in yesterday’s Chicago Sun-Times, McCarthy comes right out and says, “I am not ‘anti-vaccine.’” She then attempts to clarify her position, one she claims has been falsely represented in various stories attacking her. She writes that her only sin is believing that every child is different and that maybe a phalanx of shots all at once isn’t the best way to approach a vaccination schedule for each and every child. She decries being labeled a “wack-job ‘anti-vaxxer'” simply because she doesn’t see the debate over the administering of vaccines in black-and-white terms. She laments the “inflexible thinking” on an issue that’s of profound importance to parents and their children. Sounds reasonable, right? Sure, except that it’s not. It’s absolute bullshit. McCarthy is splitting hairs over semantics but it can’t undo the well-documented pattern of rhetoric and behavior we’ve witnessed from her over the last several years. She can say she isn’t anti-vaccine all she wants — it doesn’t suddenly make it true. The only reason she’s saying it at all is that the dangerous campaign she’s championed for years is finally beginning to come back on her.

It’s easy to say, “I am not anti-vaccine.” But to then turn around and allude to the prevalence of toxins in vaccines and the potential damage they can do to children in high quantities — she still claims vaccines gave her son autism — makes that seemingly unambiguous statement feel entirely disingenuous. McCarthy pulls her punches here, couching her concerns about vaccines as nothing more than a mother asking questions rather than issuing straight-up demands. But those concerns and questions are based on zero actual science: Over and over again the so-called dangers of vaccines have been disproved and at this point any attempt to argue otherwise or to claim that there’s still a debate going on clouds the issue and influences parents to do things they shouldn’t. There’s no controversy here, regardless of what Dr. Jenny McCarthy may outright say or just cleverly imply, and in the age of internet disinformation any oxygen willfully given to ignorance should be pointed out and beaten with a stick.

What’s most insidious about McCarthy’s piece, though, is that she deliberately makes adjustments in her past statements to make herself appear more measured and less bellicose. In the op-ed, she mentions a 2009 interview she did with Time magazine science writer Jeffrey Kluger, who completely disagrees with her stance on childhood vaccinations. Here’s how she describes it:

“People have the misconception that we want to eliminate vaccines,” I told Time Magazine science editor Jeffrey Kluger in 2009. “Please understand that we are not an anti-vaccine group. We are demanding safe vaccines. We want to reduce the schedule and reduce the toxins.”

Again, while there’s no scientific evidence for anything she said five years ago, she at least sounds reasonable, right? But she left something important off in her retelling of that exchange. Responding to yesterday’s op-ed, Kluger reprints McCarthy’s comment in its entirety.

People have the misconception that we want to eliminate vaccines. Please understand that we are not an antivaccine group. We are demanding safe vaccines. We want to reduce the schedule and reduce the toxins. If you ask a parent of an autistic child if they want the measles or the autism, we will stand in line for the f*cking measles.

McCarthy conveniently omitted that last line because she knew it would make her sound like, well, a “wack-job ‘anti-vaxxer.'” And it shouldn’t even need to be said at this point that the danger of getting the measles extends far beyond one parent’s kid, certainly when enough parents refuse to vaccinate. Large outbreaks in California and New York may very well be the result of chinks in the armor of herd immunity and if the CDC’s recommendation on vaccines isn’t adhered to by more parents, we could easily wind up seeing more cases of measles and other diseases that shouldn’t even be a topic of conversation in the year 2014.

To that end, here’s how Kluger wraps up his refutation of McCarthy’s op-ed, which is presented in the form of an open letter:

Jenny, as outbreaks of measles, mumps and whooping cough continue to appear in the U.S.—most the result of parents refusing to vaccinate their children because of the scare stories passed around by anti-vaxxers like you—it’s just too late to play cute with the things you’ve said. You are either floridly, loudly, uninformedly antivaccine or you are the most grievously misunderstood celebrity of the modern era. Science almost always prefers the simple answer, because that’s the one that’s usually correct. Your quote trail is far too long—and you have been far too wrong—for the truth not to be obvious.

That about sums it up. McCarthy can’t whitewash her very well-documented history of irresponsible anti-vaccine rhetoric simply because people are finally coming around to the damage she’s done. She’s lived by this nonsense — she has to die by it. And no amount of verbal gymnastics should change that.

  • Schneibster

    Thanks moderators.

    Bye “Timothy Horton.”

  • muad’dib

    You are mistaking her schtick for a political position. “We are demanding safe vaccines. ” makes perfect sense to me. Just because the person making the statement does not sugar coat it for you does not make the position “We are demanding safe vaccines. ” any less viable. Now, after I’ve said all this, if I threw in some schtick, would it make the previous statements incorrect? Only if you are clueless when it comes to interpreting communication. You’ve latched onto something stylistic and you’re using it to distort the intent of the message.

    • Schneibster

      I might agree if that had been what she said.

      It’s not.

    • http://cendax.wordpress.com/ Norbrook

      Vaccines are already safe. Really, seriously, honestly, true. They are. There are a small percentage of adverse side effects, most of which are mild and easily treated. The “severe” ones are when one has an undiagnosed allergy to one of the components, or has an immune disorder. Those people rely on “herd immunity” to avoid the disease. Now, if you’re asking for “absolute safety,” there is no such thing in this world. You stand a bigger risk of injury or death by getting behind the wheel of your car, or your children do if you put them in it, than from vaccinations. I haven’t noticed anyone avoiding getting into a car, though.

      • Schneibster

        And it’s especially notable that you only get a vaccine once in many years and you ride in the car every day. So it’s even better than that. :D

    • D_C_Wilson

      How do you make a vaccine safe from imaginary dangers?

  • Dago T

    As Garrett Morris’ character Slide said in “Car Wash” — (if her breasts were brains) “the b-tch must be a genius.”

  • dbtheonly

    Morning news say 212 mumps cases in Ohio.

    Sigh.

  • sirianwolf

    Just so everyone knows that measels outbreak was traced back to a girl that was vaccinated. Also it was a mutated strain of measels, so their vaccines wouldn’t have mattered anyways. Same with the polio case in CA. Not exactly polio but a mutated strain. So why would those strains mutate? Because everyone is getting injected due to the recommended schedules and they follow it like lambs to the slaughter.

    • Schneibster

      What “that outbreak?”

      Did you mean “those outbreaks?” Really? All of them?

  • Aaron Litz

    You said “chink.” Better get ready for the “CancelChez campaign! Remember; context does not matter, according to Ms. Park.

    • dbtheonly

      That’s a real “oriental” in Chez’s armor.

      • Aaron Litz

        #NotYourChinkInArmor

  • winsmith

    Chez you write like a sixth graded on ritalin, you didn’t refute squat! BTW, millions of people sneak into the country undetected every year and aren’t checked. How come you didn’t investigate that? Because it destroys the liberal open borders agenda of Obama?

    • Schneibster

      umwut?

    • Lady Willpower

      I hate the way sixth gradeds write.

    • dbtheonly

      Un-vaccinated aliens sneak into the USA?

      Immigration as a health problem? You know, with Universal Health Care, that wouldn’t be a problem.

      You do know that President Obama has deported more illegal aliens than President Bush, right?

      • winsmith

        UHC would probably bankrupt us because everyone would be flocking here to live off of uncle Sucker.
        And what’s Obamas excuse for the other 10 to 30 million IAs in this country?

        • dbtheonly

          Funny, UHC hasn’t bankrupted any of the other civilized countries in the world.

          What makes you think the USA would be the exception?

          • winsmith

            Because the courts would highly likely force us to treat them to the same, just like welfare, education etc.

          • Schneibster

            And this is bad because…

            …we’ll have less illegal aliens spreading cholera in the inner city?
            …we won’t have unidentified illegal aliens dying of measles costing hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital costs?

            Are you insane?

            Preventive care is worth its weight in gold, sonny. Get a clue.

          • winsmith

            Explain how. IAs are already bankrupting hospitals all over the country.

          • Schneibster

            Unvaccinated IAs, right?

            We done here?

          • winsmith
          • Schneibster

            Guess you forgot the quote.

          • Schneibster

            Apparently nutjob here has failed to realize that vaccination is one of the most cost-effective healthcare measures ever. Do it en masse and you can get it done for about a hundred bucks per person, against everything we can vaccinate against.

            Just one of those diseases can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare expenses.

            Dumbass nutjob here would rather be penny wise and pound foolish, as the British say. Typical Libertardian.

            Good question, db.

  • donzaloog

    She has to pay for what she’s done.

    • Schneibster

      I’d say her career as a medically trained professional is definitively over.

  • http://www.nurseswhovaccinate.org/ MelodyRN

    I hope that Jenny is making this statement to distance herself from dangerous misinformation. But whether she is trying to clarify her position or trying to backpedal, her recent column still isn’t adequate. And continues to promote misinformation. Nurses Who Vaccinate also wrote an open letter to Ms. McCarthy in response to her column post and in it refute the misconception that vaccines are a ‘one size fits all’ as well as encourages her to speak to public health professionals to address her vaccine concerns.

    You can read the letter written by a nurse to Jenny here- http://nurseswhovaccinate.blogspot. com/2014/04/dear-jenny-mccarthy.html

  • trgahan

    Nice…let the equivocating begin before the lawsuits do…

    McCarthy reminds me of all the media “intellectuals” that suddenly switched parties and/or became independents once the Iraq War went to total shit and the 2006 midterms happened.

  • Richard_thunderbay

    I wonder how many children have died as a result of her anti-vax crusude.

    • D_C_Wilson
      • Schneibster

        Jesus H. Christ.

        On a crutch.

      • Synthmatrix

        Actually those stats are just the US, so the numbers are even higher. The anti-vaxxers have reached the UK so we can safely assume Canada.

        • RachelB

          Australia too. You’d be horrified to see how prevalent it’s becoming on the mummy blogs.

  • D_C_Wilson

    If you ask a parent of an autistic child if they want the measles or the autism, we will stand in line for the f*cking measles.

    Here’s the thing, Jenny, putting aside your bullsh*t premise that vaccines cause autism, you’re omitting the fact measles can and do kill children. According to the Who, there were 122,000 deaths caused by measles in 2012. It is not just a rash that requires you to spend a week in a darkened room. It is a potentially deadly disease.

    My wife’s cousin has a child with Asperger’s. While he has some social difficulty, he is also a brilliant musician who can play almost any song on the piano from memory. If you were to ask his mother if she had to choose between having him the way he is or risk losing him altogether from the measles, she would bitch slap you the way only a Jersey mom could.

    This is why, Chez, you need to drop the word “potentially” from you description of her dangerous crusade. There is nothing potential about the real blood that is on Jenny McCarthy’s hands. People, especially children, have died and will continue to die as their parents listen to her idiotic blather.

    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/

    • aceshigh

      “According to the Who…”

      What do Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend have to do with this?

      • Schneibster

        Snicker. I presume you know he’s talking about the World Health Organization and just typoed the acronym.

        • aceshigh

          Of course. I was just being a smartass.

          I suppose a ;) would have helped with my snark. ;)

          • dbtheonly

            I thought it a reference to “Nothing is Everything”.

          • taking leek

            Mel Brooks” It is not offensive if its funny like real funny, any topic , 9/11 etc . But if its not funny then it is not a joke. How simple is that?”

    • Schneibster

      Your passion does you credit. +1.

    • David

      And I have a child with Aspergers and I resent your false choice here. If I knew then what I know now–I would have a healthy son instead one that cannot go to college or have normal relationships. The stupid vaccines have ruined his health and similarly, the health of millions. And what is the upside to the poisoning? There is no upside unless you weigh in rich drug companies and empowered state governments forcing their will on the people. Vaccine have never been documented to help with any disease. There simply is no such evidence. The facts reveal that the death toll of childhood diseases was reduced by some 95% by 1945–before the advent of mass immunization programs. This demonstrates that victories over these diseases were really won by better sanitation and nutrition, without regard to how effectively the population was poisoned with vaccinations.

      The WHO is simply lying and they always have. After throwing billions of dollars in vaccines–the populations still suffer outbreaks despite having almost all the poulation immunised and sometimes many times over. This is because the vaccines are not effective. Duh. This is why there is no evidence they help nor even a theory as to how they could help.

      • D_C_Wilson

        Well, it’s too bad that you’ve chosen to believe that nonsense propagated by a former Playboy Playmate over ALL of the scientific data published to date. I’m not the one who gave you a false choice. The false choice was thinking that you had to decide between autism and measles. Turn your resentment to where it belongs; Jenny McCarthy. She’s sold you a false bill of goods and I’m sorry for that.

        • David

          Jenny McCarthy has sold me nothing. I trust the science here. Wakefield has isolated an anaerobic infection triggered by the poisons that has a peculiar pathology linked to some of the problem but Wakefield is only one small voice. I listen to all of it and I read the facts. I sympathize with her–. But no public figure can stand up to the mob and be in good shape so she had to back down. To say that McCarthy is the contrary evidence is one horrible bit of wishful thinking. She is just one mom among many thousands who know what we know–poisons harm.

          • Schneibster

            David, we know now that autism starts during pregnancy.

            Please read the science here:

            http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-26/autism-begins-as-brain-cells-altered-in-womb-study-finds.html

            That’s the science.

            Andrew Wakefield has been stripped of his medical license and had to flee to Texas from the UK in order to avoid multiple lawsuits.

            He’s a fake, a liar, a charlatan, and a criminal.

            I’m sorry you pinned your belief on him, but the fact is you got screwed.

            I hope you don’t get abused by too many people before you realize you were duped by a faker who was after the money, not the truth.

          • David

            This is not correct at all. Wakefield was a very well regarded doctor in the UK for many years–among its sup;posed best and brightest until he made a very modest proposal. He simply suggested that the MMR be given in stages instead of all together in one lump does so fewer children would be killed in the process. Suddenly, Wakefield was smeared and excoriated, attacked and indicted. He is a doctor in search of the truth and for that he is punished. This in fact has been repeated to the very best and brightest in the medical field. NIH charged their top doc, Boyd Haley, to investigate autism. When he came back and said it was the vaccines–they fired him. On his own, he developed a specialized amino acid that cured his own son of autism. The US government came in and banned his discovery. Better to pin “my beliefs” on Boyd Haley but I do not look at any one doctor, no matter how great. The best doc at John Hopkins was also forced out and is now in private practice. In fact, this trend has happened for the past 20 years so that any decent doctor is now in higher medicine what is called by the mob as “alternative medicine” to actually help people instead of poisoning them. The poisons, by governmental fiat, make the drug companies rich and the people sick. The cure is cash only and people like me are forced to spend out of pocket thousands of dollars a year for safe things which heal the body, like glutathione. I mentioned Wakefiled and yes, his book is only one of about 10 I own against vaccines and his is not very strong–he is merely one voice protesting poisoning our children for no reason and I brought him up because Jenny McCarthy followed him and cured her child of autism. He was a medical giant when he said nothing about murdering children, when he could no longer live with the reality and offered a modest proposal–he was blacklisted. Is this reasonable?

            You want to get a lot of negative publicity–just protest the poison and help your child while everyone else suffered. Jenny McCarfthy was simply trying to help others and she has been slammed. For what? Wakefield going after what money? He was fired and libeled…No one wants to be blacklisted by the mob.

            Perhaps you might wish to comment on the fact America leads the world autism, cancer and chronic illness. Perhaps you might wish to comment on the fact no vaccine has ever been tested safe and effective. There is no theory as to how or why a vaccine could work that can stand up to scrutiny. No surprise–all the poisons are without merit and we are literally swimming in them–no productive use for the poison fluoride placed in maximum allowable amounts in our water so we are all fluoride toxic, no studies for GMO’s showing them to be anything less than a nightmare, no comment on the fact vaccine ingredients are withheld from the populace because if mothers knew what they were allowing–they would never do it. No uniformity at all concerning those vaccines so that the dosage varies radically. It is one evil system that demands total obedience. The case for poisons as healthy has never been established and it makes no sense. There has never been a safe and effective vaccine–the burden of proof is on the poison pushers to convince us and reassure us what they are doing and it is safe but they hide and decive the public and that alone is cause for mass protests.

            If a private entity did a fraction of this to its employees, it would be sued to its last nickel a very long time ago. When it is the government pushing arsenic, formaldehyde, aluminum and toxic levels of fluoride– the water alone is such a scandal–the vaccines are merely another step down that explains why Americans are so sick and the medical mob is so rich.

            What do you explain? How do you rationalize these supposedly wonderful compounds and the fact all the other nations of the world do not want our crap?
            Stop scapegoating Jenny McCarthy and be the first man to explain how the monstrous load of chemicals and toxic compounds that are a part of every vaccine. are safe and effective. Because a drug company says something? No–that is their answer–why do you poison your child? I did it because I was deceived. I would never do it again. You will keep doing it? Exponential rise in vaccines brings exponential rise in health problems. No vaccines–no autism and greater health wherever you look in the world. The un-vaccinated are always healthier in every study ever done.

          • Walker By Nature

            It IS correct David. You’re touting the miracle work of a doctor who was disproved. He lied, and was paid off to do it. Parents, like you, want him to be right, you want him to be upheld as the man who discovered what everyone wants to believe is the truth about vaccinations, but it simply is not. It was a lie with a price tag on it, and Dr Wakefield’s name was on the “Pay To” line of that check…

          • awkwardrobot

            Sorry that your genetics failed you and produced a child with autism. But trying to pin the blame on vaccines is sad and a waste of time.

          • Schneibster

            Here’s the Guardian story (it was before the Greenwald Snowjob, when they were still an honest newspaper): http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/jan/28/andrew-wakefield-mmr-vaccine

            Here’s the retraction of his Lancet article claiming MMR and autism were associated: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2810%2960175-4/fulltext

            It’s not paywalled; they judged that everyone should be able to see this.

          • David

            I am pleased to see Wakefield as one of the real doctors here looking into the problem as opposed to the thugs at the CDC and the governmental agencies that care not a whiff about the health of Americans. Dumb and unqualified as a stone. I will happily defend Wakefield as a real doctor. Note figures in the popular media like the sick Paul Offit have no credentials and have never treated a sick child and know nothing.

            Please apologize for defaming Dr. Wakefield . I know–you do not know the facts and have not looked into it-so why do all these people mouth off without knowing?? Why not look into the toxicology of the the ingredients in the vaccines? Why not do as Jenny McCarthy has done and simply ask they take out the worst of the worst so fewer kids get so ill? Is that not a start? For me–yep–I say to all parents–refuse to get the vaccine. Help your child get healthy. No vaccine is worth taking–ever. It is all a hoax and the science has always shown that for more than 40 years. In fact, this was known in the early 1920’s.

            29 studies from around the world HAVE reproduced and confirmed Dr. Wakefield’s work.
            1. The Journal of Pediatrics November 1999; 135(5):559-63
            2. The Journal of Pediatrics 2000; 138(3): 366-372
            3. Journal of Clinical Immunology November 2003; 23(6): 504-517
            4. Journal of Neuroimmunology 2005
            5. Brain, Behavior and Immunity 1993; 7: 97-103
            6. Pediatric Neurology 2003; 28(4): 1-3
            7. Neuropsychobiology 2005; 51:77-85
            8. The Journal of Pediatrics May 2005;146(5):605-10
            9. Autism Insights 2009; 1: 1-11
            10. Canadian Journal of Gastroenterology February 2009; 23(2): 95-98
            11. Annals of Clinical Psychiatry 2009:21(3): 148-161
            12. Journal of Child Neurology June 29, 2009; 000:1-6
            13. Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders March 2009;39(3):405-13
            14. Medical Hypotheses August 1998;51:133-144.
            15. Journal of Child Neurology July 2000; ;15(7):429-35
            16. Lancet. 1972;2:883–884.
            17. Journal of Autism and Childhood Schizophrenia January-March 1971;1:48-62
            18. Journal of Pediatrics March 2001;138:366-372.
            19. Molecular Psychiatry 2002;7:375-382.
            20. American Journal of Gastroenterolgy April 2004;598-605.
            21. Journal of Clinical Immunology November 2003;23:504-517.
            22. Neuroimmunology April 2006;173(1-2):126-34.
            23. Prog. Neuropsychopharmacol Biol. Psychiatry December 30 2006;30:1472-1477.
            24. Clinical Infectious Diseases September 1 2002;35(Suppl 1):S6-S16
            25. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 2004;70(11):6459-6465
            26. Journal of Medical Microbiology October 2005;54:987-991
            27. Archivos venezolanos de puericultura y pediatría 2006; Vol 69 (1): 19-25.
            28. Gastroenterology. 2005:128 (Suppl 2);Abstract-303

          • Walker By Nature

            NOTE: Medicine in the 1920’s also suggested that mothers soothe their fussy children with syrups that often contained up to 65mg of pure MORPHINE. Not to mention they also treated a number of problems with mercury (i.e. scraped knees, treating irregularity, etc) – one of the most dangerous things humans can put in our bodies! Just because your convinced that proof goes all the way back to the 1920’s doesn’t mean that it was/is genuine proof, or real science honey.

          • David

            Vaccines are not only highly toxic, there is no review of their safety and no record of effectiveness. I have studied this extensively and I am pleased to bring only sources of respect to your side, the pro-poison side. Alas, I wil refrain from offering sources that condemn poisons because they are , alas,, poisons since this point is so hard to drive home and yes, it bugs me.

            From the NIH website, four highly toxic forms of aluminum, all linked neurotoxicity are routinely added many common vaccines. Here is the summary since the entire piece will not fit as a cut and paste.
            “Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical
            science’s understanding about their mechanisms of action is still
            remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on
            toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this,
            the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely
            accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum
            adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in
            humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for
            autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological
            complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health
            consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may
            have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects
            underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and
            scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a
            framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly
            contentious medical issue.”

          • David

            This is a non-sequitur. Vaccines had a very bad rap in those early days for good reason–they commonly spurred the disease they allegedly tried to cure. The world health authorities really made a stand in the Philippines at the turn of the century. They fully vaccinated the entire population and then quickly declared small pox vanquished. This soon became the standard template of the poison pushers to falsely credit themselves for alleged success and then blame others for the failings. Between 1917 AND 1919, in the wake of full compulsory vaccination the– Philippines had an epidemic of 160,000 new cases and over 70,000 deaths. This led many good people to question the concept of vaccines but in truth there were a string of blunders and epidemics throughout the world just after universal vaccinations of the populations. The history here is elaborate. The US military at the time wanted no part of vaccinations since it was a goal to keep the men healthy.

            Money and propaganda turned the tale after real improvements in sanitation finally quelled these diseases–the vaccine gods falsely took credit and rest is history. Except for the fact continued vacinations kill and maim so many. In a drive for more and more profits, they simply cannot stop spreading disease like wildfire. In the war for obscene profits, the children are merely collateral damage.

            Yes, the medical mob has always been in favor of mercury this is why the regular doctors, as they were called through the 19th C were called “quacks”–from quacksilver the German name for mercury. Mercury and bleeding people is the history of the medical mob. This is what they continue to do.

            Support the people, Walker. BTW, thanks for calling me “honey.” Charming.

          • David L

            Not only is Wakefield a fraud, he had to run to the least regulated state in the US to avoid further prosecution. He’s a criminal and a con artist and should be imprisoned for his hand in harming so many children with his fear tactics. You too are somewhat crazy if you believe half of the tripe you’re pushing here.

          • David

            You obviously know nothing of Dr. Wakefield whose biggest crime is caring for children.. Simply saying that there are way too many poisons given at once is hardly a scare tactic.
            It is also obvious you have never been horribly Ill nor do u realize the medical system is the source of most illness..nor do you know that every truly great doc is persecuted by the mob. Don’t think one modest man from England is all that opposes this barbaric program..why not go after Russell blaylock..or David Brown stein..How many names do you want?
            Note Britain’s top doc..Sarah mylin has her medical license threatened almost every week.. All great docs are persecuted by the incompetent mob..all great docs operate very close to prosecution. This is the cost of monopoly medicine which has such bias.. Only poisons are considered therapeutic… If you disagree.. Trouble.. As Voltaire once said it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong..

          • David L

            Your conspiracy theorist terrorism is somewhat amusing. Do go on…

          • David

            You are the one who has suggested there is no good reason to oppose vaccines. I support the science and follow the facts. The point that the medical mob rules ruthlessly and irrationally is there to be seen–we live with the reality of monopoly medicines and a poison based system. If one cures without poisons–they are crushed. How many examples would you like? If one opposes the poisons, one is silenced. Why? Because poison based medicine is monopoly medicine. If people are allowed to simply find their own solutions, the poison pushers–trillions of dollars will be lost. The biggest threat to the medical mob is a healthy populace–if America goes from last place to back to second place where we were 100 years ago when we had medical freedom–the fortunes of drug companies and the system would be crushed and the people will be healthy. This is the merit of poisoning children right from the beginning–it creates a life of expense and misery that the medical mob is pleased to handle. This is why the populace is revolting and going in another direction. Ignoring and avoiding doctors is now very popular. Alternative medicine is raging and herbs and supplements are selling for billions in specific contradiction of the mob. In the past 10 years–America is finally getting a bit healthier and most agree it is because of this trend to avoid the doctors. The people are starving for natural solutions and stung by the fact they have been harmed by the antibiotics, the vaccines, the fluoride in the water and the horrific advice from the medical elites which have ruined our food supply. To say that this is all ignorance is wishful thinking. Evil must be in play since the bias towards harm brings sure profit. There is no incentive at all for health which comes from the people taking matters into their own hands, declining the chemo and the drugs and getting better. I do this for people.

          • David L

            People were “healthier” 100 years ago because we had no way to diagnose the many physical ailments they could have. They also only lived to be in their fifties and the natality rate was higher than 50%, so there’s that. Your argument is incredibly flawed: you are lacking context, credible statistical analysis, and historical evidence. Did you know that you ingest more formaldehyde when you eat an apple than there is in a dose of a vaccine? No, you didn’t, because your degree from Google University consists of chased links from one conspiracy website to the next without a break for facts.

          • David

            Your first comment is a joke since the medical mob ignores diagnostic tests. For example, there are some 52 tests for heart function. The mob relies on only 3 and sometimes 4 and they do this at a time when heart disease is exploding in numbers. Give me a chance to show you how sick you are and you might be shocked but the docs of today rely on so little testing it is truly a scandal.
            I really dislike your abuse of statistics. The statistical average is only that so people of today do not have longer lifespans, only a bit longer. What has happened is that the number of those killed in war is less, the number of accidents is higher and the amount of time spent incapacitated late in life is longer. When my namesake, King David died about 3000 years ago at 70, it was a mark of punishment from heaven that he died so young. This is why our sources speak about the stages of life and life expectancy about 2000 years ago and comment about those who live to 80 and 90 and 100. To say that our ancestors commonly died in their 40’s and 50’s is really wrong–except evidence of those soulless pre-humans tens of thousands of years ago.

            But can we stay on point here. We can surely disagree about whether or not to take the poison but we cannot disagree about knowing the content of any given vaccine, or the dose since no one knows this. The specifics of what any baby gets injected into their vulnerable veins is not at all controlled. It is all too easy to impeach and condemn this process. That you support it means you are one of the very few people who can support such savage nonsense. Do you do so knowing anything at all about what you are supporting? I say this easily because people tend to project and I see what you and others say about me.

            The fact that there is no thought or science here is easy to see based upon everything else the medical mob touches.

            More…please respond.

          • David

            To help you along here, the very same “health” officials insist on 4 ppm of toxic silicoflouide in our municipal water supplies which is a very potent poison which is responsible for many deaths and injuries. The insistence upon toxic water is instructive. Europe, for example, has clean water. America is stuck with highly dangerous water with lots of added chlorine, arsenic and formaldehyde to add to the evil fluoride. So why is this done? Is there any science behind it? How about any testing before taking this monstrous step?

            I implore you to stop relying on people who perform no tests and have no justification for doing completely irrational things.

            Has any one of these quacks even attempted a study of the synergistic effect of taking some 29 vaccines in a short period time? Do any of these anti-scientific criminals know even the slightest bit about what they are doing?

            If they did, they would happily publish what they are doing. If they did they would have something to stand on. If they did they would not have to rely on protection from prosecution. If they did they would be more than happy to explain the huge list of compounds they put in any and every vaccine but they insist on secrecy. They may release a list of some the poisons included in some of the various vaccines. But the fact is that at any given time and place, no Mom can be told what is being placed into her baby’s veins and it is not just because they want to keep it a big secret. It is the nature of the problem. All these formulas are changed willy-nilly. There is no standardization and many of the cultures are unstable or corrupted. Quality ncontrol is unreliable to say the least.

            More…

          • David

            Perhaps the most fundamental reality we could easily share is the fact of biological individuality. To support a system that ignores it all and commands the one set of poisons for everyone is surely something you could come to oppose if you have a chance of reaching common sense here. I am trying hard to help you out.

          • David L

            You are “trying hard” to insult me into acquiescence – a fundamental practice of today’s scared conservatives. You do know that studies have recently proven that autism begins in utero don’t you? They have pictures, with colors, and big words that actually make perfect sense coupled with the evidence they have brought to the issue.

            This medium is not one that I will continue to participate in with you. Your premise is weak, your outlook hateful, and your patience gone. Your religion is a lens through which you see a painted world where in fact one does not exist. Yes there are bad people and bad things, but your analysis is not based on discovery, it is based on your incredible need to be right about something terrible. You invoked a talking head (Coulter) as though anything she has ever said has been fact, and for all of that I have no respect for your opinion as it is based not in reality, but in your own incredible sense of *wanting*. Good luck to you.

          • David

            Good grief, Ann Coulter is not a PHD or trained scientist. That would be Harris Coulter.

            Autism is 5-25% genetic but please explain the explosion here and the 80% of victims and how easily it conforms to vaccination practice. Where there is no vaccination, there is no autism.

          • David L

            Do you have access to the study that proves your assertion?

          • David

            Which assertion? A parent transmits their vaccine load, heavy metals and antibiotics to their child–this is why stats show first born get that load the hardest. But there is no hard data on how much of this can be non-related to the vaccines–it is a guess and that is why I put a range on it 5-25%–a survey of opinion. The explosion in kids on the spectrum cannot come from genetics or parental influence since this would bring only slight increase in numbers. Please consider the 80%.

            Without any product liability, the burden is on the PARENTS and not the poison makers who are making millions to test their newborn. All evidence shows that those who are born in dysbiosis could be horribly damaged by the vaccines so those could easily be the ones harmed the most. But to me, this is needless since the benefits are so negligible–ticking the damage down by parental testing is no good substitute for refusing all vaccinations as unwanted in the first place. To make the parents responsible for reducing the damage done by the vaccines is just really too much.

          • David L

            Ah, there it is: you’re a fundamentalist Christian. “Soulless pre-humans”? Yes this is dismissive, but I’m not interested in arguing with you about your imaginary friends.

          • David

            I am no Christian and I know only a little bit about Christianity. But if I was–how does that invalidate science? A Christian is not a thinking person–only an atheist? Is this your position?

          • David L

            A Christian that is a fundamentalist does not believe in the evidence produced by the scientific process. You assume much, I said nothing about atheism.

          • David

            Then show the parents the science that these compounds are safe. We understand they are not and will not harm our children any more. There must be respect for informed consent. This issue brings liberals (although few like Robert Kenndy, JR. and the idiot John Kerry) and conservatives together. This program is going down fast. Antibiotics and vaccines will soon be considered historic blunders.

          • David L

            Sorry man but we’re just going to agree to disagree here. Your passion is awesome but you are bringing the most ridiculous assertions to an intellectual conundrum.

          • David L

            What exactly are you mad about? You are clearly anti-vaccine. Fine, to each their own, but you are fighting really hard in a space where you are clearly not going to make a dent, especially with the aggressive methodology you are employing. What do you want from a space like this?

          • David L

            Might I add that you are fueling literally all of the anti-vaxxer stereotypes that all of these people you are railing against observe in the types that are “pro-disease”. Perhaps you could bring links to studies that prove your stance… That would go a lot farther than bringing up Coulter and doctors who’ve lost their licenses.

          • David

            Sorry, David. 100 years ago, American life expectancy was second only to Switzerland. Today we are dead last among the 16 industrialized nations. 100 years ago, cancer was very rare. Now it is one in 3. 100 years ago, no one was autistic. 100 years ago, heart disease was very rare. All medical conditions were known and diagnosed by these great doctors. The history of medicine is a real eye opener–I encourage you to read any of Coulters books. The medical mob has gained their monopoly dishonestly.

            Tring to vindicate vaccines based upon the use of one ingredient makes no sense. Formaldehyde is a carcinogen but it is, unlikely that people will get cancer from formaldehyde. This is why I suppose you champion its use.

            Try to champion the far more toxic componengs of common vaccines. The aluminum content is frightening, the antibiotics are causative of all kinds of medical problems. Sqaulene is highly toxic. Neomycin is a horrible antibiotic of no use to a newborn except to cause damage. The whole thought of giving a newborn an antibiotic is thoughtless. There is not even a theory why this is being done to our children. It is like the fluoride in the water. Substituting good fats and mandating bad fats so everyone becomes obese and has heart disease are punishing America. Polysorbate 80 is linked to infertility and is highly toxic. Streptomycin is nothing to give to anyone you care about. All adjuvants cause nerve damage.

            The hypocrisy of your position is breathtaking. If a Republican says something–you are all over it. If someone that supports the coal industry makes a claim, you reflexively disbelieve it. But if the government/medical mob says something–you are all about supporting it with blind faith.

            Please explain.

          • David L

            You want me to read Coulter to get fact? You are an incredible specimen. I “championed” nothing; your paranoia is astounding. One hundred years ago, we sent people with *any* mental abnormality to a “group home” of one sort or another. Just because we have a name for it now (as of 1943) is not evidence that it wasn’t “autism” then.

            ou are naming all of these chemicals that have negative side effects on the human body but you are totally ok with the diseases that have prolonged and improved our lives spreading like wildfire? Your argument is difficult to follow as it folds on itself quite a bit – perhaps you should take a breath and stop typing angrily.

            You keep bringing up the “medical mob”; exactly whom does this group consist of? Pharma? Democrats? Doctors? Or just anyone that doesn’t agree with you?

            I don’t fall back on “faith”, I’m a cold hard fact sort of person. I like statistical analysis, trends, historical evidence… you know, facts. You believe that there is some sort of conspiracy however and that takes faith: the belief in something you cannot prove.

          • David

            Yes, read any of Harris Coulter’s books. The Divided Legacy series is excellent and brings the history.

            His other book on vaccinations (alas my library of anti-vaccination books is huge since so many PHD scientists verify vaccination is a really horrible idea) can be bought here for 16 dollars.

            http://www.amazon.com/Vaccination-Social-Violence-Criminality-American/dp/1556430841/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1398090792&sr=1-1&keywords=harris+coulter

            You are totally wrong that autism is something old that we have simply renamed and it has always been with us. Kids today are relieved of even basic sports in schools they are so feeble and uncoordinated. This is clearly a new trend.

            If you are as you say, you have no choice but to oppose vaccinations with all the other honest people. Look for the truth and you will find it. Believe what the drug companies say and get a biased perspective only.

            The mob is a name for the medical industrial complex thjat is with us that has sponsored this systematic national decline of health. They are the ones to speak out against everything healthy and rubber stamp everything that is toxic. It is the FDA that gives a green light to any poison a drug company comes up with and then perversely, after millions have been exposed like Vioxx or Cipro–ban it or issue a black box warning. None of these compounds are safe and only a mob can look at the facts and say OK to dangerous compounds while issuing stern warnings about the safest things like Vitamin C, antioxidants and real milk. Therfe is no science with the mob and it seems they have more pride as a fetish group than anyone interested in health. They OK mammograms and discourage thermography. They love colonoscopies and hate stool samples. They don’t give a correct diagnosis because they do not use good diagnostic tools. They are the cut, poison and burn crowd. If one can make a fortune on it–they love it. If it is healthy and established–they oppose it.

          • David L

            Also, the life expectancy in 1900 was in the 40s and 50s. Whether or not that is second to Switzerland is a side note, not a point of contestation.

          • David

            Formaldehyde is just one ingredient the medical mob would classify, in their abusive language, as “generally well tolerated.” Of course not even a pretense that it could be good for you but only that some or even a majority can tolerate it. Which means that a minority of sensitive individuals, like myself and my patients do NOT tolerate it well. In which case, they do not care if they believe, despite the facts, some or even a numerical majority will not experience a disease as a result.

            The argument that carcinogens are all around us does not give a license to take the same compound and inject it directly into a baby with no blood brain barrier and let the wheel of misfortune take effect.

            The tiring argument that one must PROVE the most toxic poisons have a bad effect is endless. Is it really fair to state that the innocent must prove their damage? Again, in no other context can industrial polluters, for example (and I have a good friend who is a lawyer for these people) put the burden on the victims as to how much of a toxic compound can generally cause harm. The reality of the victim is normally sufficient.

            But even as vaccine compensation victims payouts continue, the dead and maimed are expected to provide the proof they are dead and maimed. Jenny McCarthy is told that her autistic son was not really autistic after all, adding insult to injury. Milliions of parents are told to blame something other than what they know caused the damage. It is genetic, it is a lack of love from the parents, it is one dumb idea after another.

            This madness will end. It is over for the antibiotics and vaccines. And the poisons in the water. America is going to get healthy dump these barbaric days. In the future, we will be asked by our grandkids, the few of us that make it alive until then–how could we allow such stupidity to happen? At least I will be able to say that I helped people detox and I opposed all of it.

          • http://www.fark.com Holdeestrufs

            All you need to know about the scary and “impressive” list of articles which I’m sure where totally comprehended and exhaustively reviewed by David:

            http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/05/07/studies-supporting-andrew-wakefield/

            http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2011/05/still-no-independent-confirmation-of.html

            Summary: “That – Martha and friends – is because no one (apart from Wakefield and his buddies) has ever been able to replicate Wakefield’s claims. I had previously looked at 5 studies supposedly „independently“ replicating Wakefield, but this list was **28 citations long** (I guess the length is supposed to duly impress AND to keep anyone from checking).”

            At least when all the babies of stupid, vulnerable, vaccinated adults are done dying, they won’t be autistic… or they’ll die before they can be diagnosed. David, you are a horrible, feeble minded person, and while I am sorry for your afflicted child, I have no sympathy for you. Willful ignorance is never commendable, regardless of the reason. There is nothing noble, courageous or intelligent about the misinformation you are disseminating, nor the zeal with which you present it. Please ask Jenny McCarthy how she “cured” her autistic child (I think it was a gluten-free organic vegan atkins south beach diet or something), there may be some hope for yours. When you do find that information out – please return here and post away. I know I’ll be eagerly waiting.

          • David

            As a health coach, I have seem many records of sick young boys and it is astonishing. When I do the testing or real testing is performed) –the truth comes out. The medical mob offers no support for the victims and offers up blood work so basic that shows no damage when there is massive damage. This is why the child is in a state of chronic fatigue, cannot think straight, is failing academically and lacks social skills. When I grew up and our vaccinations were basic, none of this was evident. Now it is all over the place. We now live in an era of weak boys with low testosterone and horrible immune response, victims of a gang of governmental thugs determined to do what they do and hiding the facts from us. So how many billions have been paid to victims of vaccination? They keep it a secret. How many times do they change the formulas and the schedule–they change it all the time. How many failures and embarrassing scandals and covered up so the expensive poisoning can continue? The scandal here is massive. They cause epidemics BECAUSE they vaccinate and then claim they are saving lives through vaccination. Huh? Who believes this? This gang has great courage–very bold liars. They have to lie, they profit so much from it.

            Re: the diet, The GAPS diet is standard in our world for helping to cure those on the spectrum. Slamming this one Mom because she helped her child is an outrage. Making fun of McCarthy because she took steps to help save her son and she did it and now faces public scorn and ridicule. It is very revealing that this is the power of the mob to bring the masses along as if we have Stockholm Syndrome.

          • Schneibster

            Dude, he’s a fraud. Long proven.

            From the reporter who broke the case open, a copy of the public charges Wakefield was found guilty of by the British General Medical Council’s “Fitness to Practice” hearing on Wakefield.

            There is no defamation here. You’re lying, period.

          • Chez Pazienza

            It’s odd to read your comments because by all accounts you sound rational, even intelligent. And yet you believe things that are absolutely untrue and you purport to be so convinced of these beliefs that it almost seems like you might be doing satire. That’s the only explanation I can think of for why someone as articulate as yourself is wasting so many words being intellectually violent to the point of madness.

            Everything you’re saying is wrong. All of it. It’s been proven so over and over again, and what you’re hanging onto is nothing more than a figment of your own imagination. Under normal circumstances I’d shrug it off and say, “Who cares?” But right now, in this very public forum and I’m sure in many others, you’re advocating a dangerous, potentially deadly course of action for parents, and you’re doing it with an almost astonishing level of confidence while in reality having nothing at all to back up your positions.

            If your child truly does have Asperger’s then obviously that’s unfortunate and I feel for you, but that doesn’t absolve you of what you’re doing; it doesn’t excuse this lunatic crusade you’re on nor should it earn you kid gloves treatment from people who know better and who realize that what you’re doing has the potential to cause irreparable harm. You’re wrong. Completely, utterly, without an ounce of equivocation. And for every single word you write or speak that preaches anti-intellectual garbage based on nothing more than your own delusions, someone else needs to counteract it just in case a third party reads or hears you and mistakenly believes you have the slightest idea what the hell you’re talking about.

            I almost want to have your comments deleted; that’s how strongly I feel about ensuring that the fact that you can form a complete sentence doesn’t lure neophytes on this subject — or perhaps desperate parents such as yourself — into thinking that your arguments have merit. They don’t. Not one bit. Now while it pains me to know that no amount of logic, reason, or medical proof will stop you from this asinine crusade of yours across other venues, the very least I can do is make sure it doesn’t continue here.

            Don’t comment again, David. I can’t stop you from taking your crap somewhere else, but I won’t have it here.

          • David

            So all the research.. All the facts against this crazed public torture chamber must be ignored And considered noncontroversial? We are somehow obligated to cheer this assault to our children? This campaign is far than a scandal but my stand here is modest since public outrage against these unsafe and ineffective poisons is waning.. America is tired of being last in health and first in cancer and autism. Zero chance I am wrong.. I have been at this a long time.. I have done good faith research and tracked down toxicology reports Of various ingredients in vaccines and this is a horror show. For you to see these compounds As without question is truly remarkable.with so many sick people and ignore the fact that the medical system is the cause is a true blind spot. Do you really wish to take this stand publicly.??
            Do you believe that a stand against poisons is really worthy of your censorship?

          • Chez Pazienza

            Goodbye, David.

          • David

            I will avoid your site. Sad you find the demise of America’s health somehow without controversy.
            Very soon.. No one will dare see it in favor of the poisons.

          • Aaron Litz

            You cling to this with the unthinking zeal of a religious convert. We all know this is because you have to find something to blame for your child’s condition since you cannot accept that your perfect genes could lead to a child with such a problem, but your sad crusade it utterly wrong and dangerous.

            So, vaccines had no connection to the decline of diseases that has occurred over the past 200 years? Truly? My great-grandparents who were alive to personally witness the wonderful decline would disagree with you. As would the evidence of current outbreaks of diseases following large nubers of parents refusing to have their children vaccinated.

            Your insistence on the validity of a paper that has proven to be fraudulent and written for a pay-off is proof enough that you have no idea what you are talking about, but your added assertions that making vaccines is a lucrative business is added proof. Pharmaceutical companies no dot make profits on vaccines; it is basically done at-cost as a societal need, at the insistence of the government, and to generate goodwill among consumers. That you call the CDC and government health agencies “thugs who care not a whiff about the health of Americans” just shows how deluded and paranoid you are.

            How much medical training have you had? Since you have accused us of not knowing what we’re talking about while you have “looked into it” I am very curious to know. You apparently do not understand that reading articles you found on the Internet written by anti-vaccine activists does not count as research. Research is conducted according to the scientific method by people trained in the discipline of medicine. So, again, how much medical training have you had, that allowed you to conduct all of this research you keep citing?

            You sound worse than these people from 1802; I say worse because they weren’t writing their screeds in denial of 200 years of proof of the efficacy of vaccines, while you are:

            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/The_cow_pock.jpg

          • David

            Facts can be consulted here..Please look into the truth. To be crude here..it hardly matters how many pro vaccine people persist despite the evidence..this policy of systematic illness is going down…then what might you say regarding your former support for the policy? Many diseases ..largely defeated by better sanitation… Are actually mild and can be easily treated if they occur. The vaccines are sure pain and no medical gain.
            Chicken pox vaccines have unleashed an epidemic of adult cases of shingles.. Please look past the anecdotes and you will see that the media supports the drug companies and this explains why America remains dead last in health.
            Please care about our national health decline… We have been systematically poisoned and arrogance.. Ignorance and evil is a deadly combination..
            I am a health coach..Alas.. I am more than busy. Very few people are actually healthy..

          • Aaron Litz

            You’re using aluminum as one of your examples of the big awful chemicals that cause harm in vaccines? Seriously? Infants drink more aluminum in their mother’s natural milk than children get in any vaccine, and it is far from harmful. And that’s the only one of your spurious claims I am going to bother wasting my time to address because they are so wildly inaccurate and painfully ignorant that you obviously have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.

            Honestly, I don’t know what “These things turn our sons into zombies” is even supposed to mean. Chicken pox vaccines have created an epidemic of shingles in adults? Where did this happen? When? I guess “the government is covering it up” somehow, I suppose?

            Whatever “research” you undertook “for years” was obviously of the most useless kind. You are a zealot for a cause that is totally unsupported by science, yet you keep stating that your claims are based on “science.” Science is not determined by whomever shouts the loudest, it is determined by formulating a hypothesis, experimentation, discarding parts of the hypothesis that have been proven incorrect and reworking the hypothesis based on the observed facts, more experimentation, trial, error, and hard work, until a theory is formed that fits with all the observed facts and data. Your “scientific evidence” is anecdotal at best but mostly completely fabricated.

            The reason why reasonable, educated people like us get so outright furious with you and your ilk is because you are all guilty of spreading fear and lies that are causing other gullible, uneducated, and ignorant parents to distrust their doctors and withhold necessary medication from their children, which is causing those children (as well as the innocent children of other parents) to die.

            You cling to wholly unsupported claims in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, while spouting totally spurious “facts” that you read somewhere in your “research.” Unless your “research” was done in the course of an actual medical study then it is less than worthless, and in fact is actively harmful and deadly.

            I am wasting my time even writing this, I know, but my anger just won’t let me go without saying something. The entire anti-vaccination movement is a slap in the face of scientific method itself and you should all be hideously ashamed of yourselves. Try discussing your concerns about the “dangers” of vaccines with an actual medical scientist instead of your fellow conspiracy theorists to learn the actual facts instead of the fabricated numbers you have been propagating (but I suppose that, in your mind, if any qualified scientist disagrees with you then they are obviously part of the “conspiracy” to “poison” our children with their vaccines. Unfortunately for you, that would make 99% of the medical community part of this “conspiracy.”)

          • David

            You bring a lot of heat here and this is another case of blaming the messenger instead of blaming the government for destroying the lives of so many people and harming millions. Heat and anger towards the system that kills and maims is the normal response.
            Most fundamental to the problems people are having understanding scientific reality is perceiving the nature of the poisons. People on this folder are very diplomatic to the mercury, the aluminum, the antibiotics, the arsenic.and all the toxic compounds yet very harsh and cruel to the victims of those poisons. And the reasoning comes from the belief propagated that it is supposedly only a little bit of poison. But this is not at all what the science demonstrates.

            We are speaking about chemicals which are the most toxic known to man. Time and again, caring mothers work hard to avoid all things which could harm their baby indirectly for those nine months and despite their love, the government comes in and injects complex pharmaceuticals directly into their bloodstream.

            It is the very nature of poisons that concentrations almost close to zero give strong biological effect–this is proven the case of mercury, arsenic and of course fluoride which is forced on the people at a very high 4 ppm which is responsible for a lot of disease alone. If fluoride was reduced to .7ppm–for example–it would still have a horrible effect and if that was injected into a baby–that level would surely kill the baby.

            People fail to realize the synergistic effect of dozens of these horrible, changed and altered almost monthly by the CDC–making any kind of scientific assessment impossible. The scientific method NEEDS to be at least given a bit of lip service by the government–instead, this a case of “quack medicine gone wild” with a population now unwilling to sustain anymore of it while the CDC plans to pile on more and more.

            To say this is merely governmental overreach misses the point. This is junk science, this is an abandonment of basic rights and freedoms offered by our Founders, this is out of control systematic weakening of the population that will soon end because it is intolerable.

            Given biological individuality–there is no systematic science that can assess the risks of dozens of vaccinations on a population with varying inherited biochemical profiles, metabolic rates and vulnerabilities. Never does the system attempt to even screen for these things. Truly, if anything should never be centralized–it is THIS. The belief that all of these poisons–completely foreign to the human body–can have a safe and effective reaction in every baby born is insane.

            The baseline defense of the poisons is also totally without merit. To say that we must accept collateral damage for the greater good is a simple lie. There are no adverse reactions to vaccines–only normal and heightened reactions based upon the nature of what is being attempted to *force* an immune reaction. This wild experimentation has zero to do with science and the scientific method.,
            The people must be free to use their on risk/benefit assessment and use civil disobedience to resist this unlawful intrusion into our health and happiness.

          • David

            Yes, the government makes a huge amount of income from this policy which has exploded without even a pretext of need. There is no need to dramatically expand a vaccination program that in 1983 as small and autism was still 1 in 10,000. In 2008, the rate became 1 in 100 with the explosion compounds. Even this number, as dramatic as it is, ignores the 1 in 8 rate for those on the spectrum totally. Horror show. Completely devastating. Yes, as a Jew this is perfectly fine to describe as a “Holocaust.” Drug companies have made a fortune and the government has also made a fortune collecting that money. But the population has suffered.

            You want real science from a crowd that refuses to do a cause and cure calculation? Despite all evidence, they are deaf dumb and blind.

            Yes, you are not listening. But it goes deeper and let me make this a personal challenge for you. Our Shema does not mean to hear or merely to listen. Shema means knowledge as we take the disparate facts and build a unity. This is the root of the secular ideal of America–e pluribus unum. We gather the evidence to make a oneness and then stand as witness to the truth. Putting it together means gaining the knowledge and background to see the evidence and from your perspective–this is also called “science” or from my point of view–real science. In today’s world–we serve a system and not the people and their health goals. Check out the victims–listen to us. Indeed, you were harmed as well.

            Read this:

            http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/survey-results-are-unvaccinated-children-healthier/

            As I stated, all studies show the unvaccinated are always more healthy so the system will no longer do these studies. So this one was done in Germany but used a lot of kids from the USA.
            There is great threat of a healthy populace and great advantage to the system of a critical mass of desperately sick people. This is the biggest thing to break.

          • Anuj Vyas

            You wasted your time with a thoroughbred troll!

          • Aaron Litz

            I know… it’s one of my hot buttons. :(

          • David

            The theory that there is some hidden genetic cause for broken immune systems and skyrocketing autism rates makes no sense..today..a real medical workup shows a high Percentage.. Now one in three on the spectrum.. How can genetics explain this explosion..
            My consistent attempt here is to bring people to simply look at the ingredients in these grotesque chemical concoctions.. Just look at the antibiotics.. The adjunvants.. The aluminum..some of the most dangerous carcinogenic compounds known to man. I may know this stuff well because I have researched it for years..you do not.. Phenols are cancer causing.. The list is long.. The thought behind these vaccines is nonexistant and is constantly changed and twisted.. They rely on secrecy and protection of liability from the government… These things turn our sons into zombies. Robbing them of a fair chance at life.
            This is all about greed and nothing about health… For every supposed blame against the unvaccinated are tens of thousands of fully vaccinated..
            Get involved here..stop blaming the messenger..

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            The papers the list you provide do not support a link between autism and vaccination. Of the first twelve I found only one that even mentioned vaccination. Michael Kirkpatrick has a fuller review here:

            http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/05/07/studies-supporting-andrew-wakefield/

            It is not “censorship” to point out that citation lists that are claimed to support a link between vaccines and autism do no such thing. And I do think that anyone reposting that link ought at least to do due diligence and check the citations. Some of them aren’t even correct (one doesn’t have enough info to find; another has erroneous page-numbers – these errors are repeated in all the internet copies of the list that I found, suggesting that it is widely reposted without the reposters bothering to actually check which have anything to do with vaccines (only one in the first twelve).

          • Schneibster

            Don’t bother, Lizzie, Chez already smacked him.

          • Schneibster

            Hi stalker lady.

          • David

            It is established that vaccines are dangerous and the damage done is various. Wed have played Russian roulette with the population and the people are getting fed up with it. Vaccines are dangerous and problematic without question and are never safe or effective. The government has way overstepped its bounds and there is no informed consent, the scandals are quietly hidden from public view and the people are getting sicker and sicker. Poisoning is always autism or on the spectrum but I have looked at several young people damaged by these products and they are all on the spectrum. My bottom line here is that informed consent means the people have a right to decide if they want these poisons into their babies or not. I know the topic very well. The fact remains that at any given time and place–one cannot at all be sure what is being injected–almost all of it is bad there is no science behind it and the danger is clear as a bell. Please go to the government’s website for ingredients and study the list. Scandal after scandal proves a that a parent interested in the health and well-being of their child would never consent to this onslaught. I must spend the rest of my life saving myself from the poisons offered by this crowd of governmental mandated and licensed medical people. Only two years ago, the antibiotics nearly killed me. Please come to terms with reality here–America leads the world in cancer, autism, heart disease and chronic illness such as Alzheimers, MS and Parkinsons. We are asking politely for the freedom to choose our own treatment free of harassment. The poisons are subsidized by the state–healthy things must be bought at great expense. Getting healthy after being poisoned is not easy or inexpensive. Let nus have a shot at health and happiness, please. If you want to get poisoned–go right ahead. This is the essence of freedom.

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            You say that “It is established that vaccines are dangerous” yet you posted a list of papers to support your view that do not in fact support it. Only one of the papers you cited even mentioned vaccination, and even that wasn’t a paper about vaccination. I agree that it is really important to get good evidence about the safety of medicines, but it is important to read the evidence too!

          • David

            The facts here are both logical and established.. Since the medical establishment owns and is so financially invested in the process.. The official studies are in the fine print.. Studies in support of safety are what is lacking. As I argued previously. When a private poison pusher is on trial..they cannot demand proof of clear and present danger.. Instead..the poison advocates must establish safety and they cannot and they will not…more importantly there is no reason to believe vaccines are effective.. If you are moved by facts and evidence.. You would join the victims in support of a freedom to say no. If you are waiting for Merck to sponsor a supposed study indicting itself.. You will have to wait. Better to simply look at the medical profile of the vaccinated.. These innocent young people are clearly damaged. That is the study you need to observe.
            But the science fully establishes what I am saying.. The gruesome details have been known for sometime.. The number of victims is huge.

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            The science does NOT fully establish what you are saying. The very science you cited in support of your claim does not say what you implied it did. None of them were actually about vaccination, including the sole paper that mentioned “vaccination” was about vaccination. So if you are basing your claim on that literature, you are not basing your claim on science.

          • David

            “list?” huh? Drop it–forget the cut and paste. This is a huge terrain. You pick a topic and I will give you citations. Are we speaking of Guardisil–that would be one subject. Are we looking at indicting commonly used adjuvants??–that is another study. Are we speaking of cultures? They vary widely. Are we speaking of Hep B–totally useless? Are you speaking of the flu vaccine–almost always completely useless. Or Rotarix–what a scandal –the contaminated culture was given to 30 million before it was discovered to be contaminated and pulled–another example of a vaccine that directly causes the disease it is alleging it can prevent. One more time, this product called a vaccine is very far from uniform and the variations are endless. For every compound there will be great variety, for example, if you want to try to figure out the out of mercury given to your child–good luck. It is impossible to find out the answer. The US banned high levels of mercury but the government repurchased elements of vaccines from nations such as China that used high levels of mercury to get around the ruling for a number of years. Some vaccines have trace amounts–some have much more. Try to add it up to gauge the load–very hard to do.

            My repeated point here over and over demands a response: Do you believe that this bizarre and secret program of forced vaccinations is in the spirit of America–or more in the spirit of a totalitarian regime? Isn’t informed consent the bottom line goal here–since we all weigh and balance risk and benefit differently–how can this kind of crazy program that wounds so many people without ever acknowledging the known risks–fit the needs of millions of Americans with biological individuality?

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            Why should I forget your cut and paste? You posted a list of 29 citations in support of your claim, which it appears you have not personally checked, and which do not, in fact, support your claim. So simply telling me that you have more citations that support more claims isn’t very persuasive! You say that “it is impossible to find out the answer” to these questions. Well, it is certainly difficult, but it is not made easier when people claim that a scientific evidence supports their case when it in fact doesn’t. Ironically, that is what you are accusing the “medical establishment” of doing, but you are doing it yourself. The way to find out answers is to actually evaluate the evidence – check out the studies, critique the methodologies, note the omissions. Nobody is well-served by sloppy information, least of all you and your son.

          • David

            You are not acting in good faith here..if you wish to review relevant data here..it would take months for you to know the broad picture…the causal Link is tied to many facets..so if you want a taste.. I will ask you again to pick on small part of it.
            This is not productive.. I asked you a series of broad questions.. These and other questions outline the terns of the debate on this blog.. If you wish a scientific background.. This will involve a lot..
            Another strong point I have made here is the utter folly of this profoundly stupid vaccination program which in justice could be ended tomorrow for the benefit of mankind.
            We have been scammed into making a horrible bargain and spread disease like wildfire.. Vaccines are a huge public enemy…
            But if you wish to get involved in the microbiological details as so many have been forced to do..great..
            You will surely be on my side when you do..that is not the purpose of this question on this website..

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            I am certainly acting in good faith. I called you on your list – it did not support your case. You have yet to acknowledge this. You make these sweeping claims (“utter folly of this profoundly stupid vaccination program”) yet cite no evidence that supports your view. I agree with you that the truth is hard to find – but you need to look for it, not draw premature conclusions from a list of studies that you have not apparently read.

          • David

            One more time.. If you are interested.. Cite one part of the vaccination you wish to justify and I will show you the facts to indict it…
            If you do not respond.. This is not good faith.
            I suggested several things.. You pick.
            The evidence is overwhelming… No parent should rubber stamp these useless c
            Compounds but I..unlike they..believe in freedom…if you want to poison your child and make that choice.. That is your choice.
            But as this blog entry screams.. There are not options here..roll up your child’s sleeve..force him to take what a tiny minoritybelieves is good and shut up..ignore the data..ignore the body count..ignore the immune system failures..ignore the link to autism..ignore the fact that autism rates have exploded with the explosive vaccine schedules.. Shut up…don’t think..just go for the poison.. Do you agree with this message or not..
            One might wish to imagine the people will embrace vaccines if evidence shows a cost benefit assessment that is convincing.. Many people are not all all convinced that sure pain and a bit of very speculative gain is a good thing.
            What do you think?
            Speak to the issue…

          • David

            The truth is very easy to find.

            Wakefield’s links are perfectly fine–you need to understand. The cascade links vaccines to autism. Wakefield has never alleged, nor do I, that vaccines cause autism. This is perfectly good basic science and has been supported by others. Do not dwell on this if you do not like it. Understand that autism is a behavior. Poisons bring about, indirectly, these changes. The direct links are with the gut and the brain especially but as these interact with the heavy metals including the aluminum–the outcome happens. This is settled science. Ignore it for the money if you wish but the damage to the populace is crystal clear. Ad for any alleged benefits, this is a scam. With pure bravado, the pro vac crowd has promised the end of many of these conditions with universal vaccination. It has not happened.

            Sure pain, no real gain.

            So why is it happening? Ask the question and you will discover the answer.

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            I am glad you are not alleging that vaccines cause autism. In that case I do not know why you are objecting to vaccination.

            As for benefits of vaccination, many diseases have been eradicated as a result of vaccination, and the impact of others greatly diminished. Smallpox and polio are two notable examples. Smallpox has been so thoroughly eradicated that vaccinations are no longer even given. Polio no longer seriously disables children for life (as it did my uncle, for instance). Measles and whooping cough are no longer common and often lethal childhood diseases.

            As for antibiotics – yes there are problems, but you forget that before penicillin, “infection” carried the same intimations of mortality as “cancer” does today, although thanks to more medical research, many cancers are now treatable. You are simply ignoring the benefits of treatment and focussing only on possible (in the case of vaccination not even demonstrable) associations between these treatments and adverse effects. Sure, many treatments do have some adverse effects – but do not forget the diseases they treat so successfully.

          • David

            We just disagree on the facts and you are not reading my arguments. Vaccinations cause the cascade of problems that bring on the behavioral illness called autism. The link is clear. A strict causal relationship cannot be alleged by the definition of autism. So we are fussing over definitions. What is autism? The nerve damage in the brain and the viral infections in the gut ruin the lives of many.

            Note doctors today still have a real hard time with viral infections and penicillin and antibiotics harm more than they help. I cannot take either and both have almost killed me when I did.

            The record on measles is clear as I have argued and outbreaks in fully vaccinated populations have occurred often.

            I am not alleging a reality of rare adverse reactions. I **am** alleging that the nature of these compounds is to provoke bad reactions–killing some instantly while harming others. There is no vaccine for hard to treat diseases. There are only vaccines for easy to treat illnesses of illnesses that were cured with sanitation.

            As I have said to so many others–since we do not see the facts and the record similarly–I go back to a plea for informed consent so people that wish to stay clear of these compounds for their babies can do so in freedom and without retaliation. While others can be misled and help the drug companies sell their stuff–many of us simply wish to be left alone in peace and allowed to make a choice we feel reflects our assessment of the risks vs. the benefits.

            If you agree perhaps you will question blog hits against moms like Jenny M who simply worked hard to help her son and wanted to help other victims. But she has been slammed and ridiculed and her life is now hell for simply telling her story.

            Good for you to say we can make peace and these slanders are not in the spirit of open honest debate and disagreement.

          • David

            To complete the thought..do you think the lawyers representing the victims win millions without evidence?
            The insanity of the government paying billions for these horrible compounds and then being forced to spend more billions to compensate the victims is a disaster.
            In America.. The victim takes the compensation on condition of not spreading the bad news. I will help do that.

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            On the whole, I think lawsuits are more often won when the evidence for the case is better than the evidence against, but without specifics, obviously I can’t comment. And that is really my point – making blanket statements about vaccines being harmful, and re-posting a much-copied list of supposedly supporting “evidence”, which apparently you haven’t read, and which turns out to be no such thing, doesn’t help anyone. Most medicines are not harmless, but sometimes they are less harmful than the conditions they successfully treat, and none of the papers in the list you posted support Wakefield’s contention that vaccines cause autism, even in occasional cases. Please read them at least before you post that list again.

          • David

            To explain further..there are dozens of highly toxic compounds here.. A vaccine is not one thing.. To detail the dangers of antibiotics.. Many sources here.. I especially like the bassler book. See Boyd Haley for neurological effects.. See a German study that indicts poly sorbate..lots of material… For me..just look at the victims… This is not subtle.. It is an easy obvious call.

          • Elizabeth Liddle

            This citation list is a copy-paste. I don’t know where it originally came from but it’s readily googlable, errors and all (there are several, so it’s obvious that it’s a copy paste as all the copies have the same errors). I started to check each citation, and by the time I’d got to number 12, I’d found one solitary study that even mentioned vaccines (number 6).

            That was the point at which I googled the list, and discovered that someone else, like me, had been prepared to look up all the citations. His review is here:

            http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2013/05/07/studies-supporting-andrew-wakefield/

          • Schneibster

            Hi stalker.

          • David

            The truth here is easily apparent and very logical.. Vaccines are unjustified and will be quickly phased out like antibiotics.. Also included in the concoctions called vaccines but are in truth more or less simply toxic compounds of no merit.
            This is the established fact of the matter. This..together with the full force if the poison based system..why we are so sick.. Good idea to wake up..
            Wakefield is fine…drop it and look at all the other doctors saying the same thing all these years
            In our basic humanity.. We will drop this monumental error that has ruined so many millions.
            Zero chance I am wrong… Dramatic reductions are already being mandated.. Next phase… People will refuse whole sale… Then it will be over and we can rebuild our health…
            Wanna bet? The writing is on the wall…vaccine proifiteers would be smart to sell now and take the cash.

          • David

            The desire to change the subject and attack to protect those harming our population is transparent.. McCarthy is merely one mom among millions in anguish..so ignoring the millions and viciously attacking one is the strategy.. Wakefield is merely saying what so many real doctors have been saying but some slander has been thrown at him so attacking him becomes a way to diminish the evidence.
            In truth..this debate is not about one mom or one unfairly maligned doctor who has done his homework..
            It is about the irrational spread of toxic compounds which kill some on contact..maim others..and punish everyone.. There is a total lack of informed consent and this scandal will not go away until the adjunvants..the antibiotics.. The poisons…. are no longer forced on the innocent and poorly and lamely considered therapeutic.

          • D_C_Wilson

            “I trust the science here. ”

            No you don’t. Wakefield is a fraud who was trying to push an alternative vaccine that he had money infested in. I suggest you read the real scientific information and not the anti-vax crap.

          • Schneibster

            Give the dude a break, DC. His kid is autistic.

          • D_C_Wilson

            And for that he has my sympathies. But he’s not doing his kid any favors by propagating false information.

          • Schneibster

            That’s true enough. Still, we don’t have to be assholes to him.

          • D_C_Wilson

            This is my tough love.

          • Schneibster

            You’re the Bad Cop. :D

          • Gunnut2600

            His kids autistic…not him. He can still be a rational adult if he wanted to.

          • villemar

            Okay, we can focus on the other famous spokespeople: Rob Schneider, Donald Trump and the Pakistani Taliban. Seems legit.

          • Walker By Nature

            Wakefield LIED in his findings, and was discredited. Find another medical god to hail to.

          • http://cendax.wordpress.com/ Norbrook

            Wakfield conducted a seriously ethically-challenged and scientifically flawed study, which should never have been published because it didn’t show what he said it did. That’s why he’s been banned from medicine in Britain. He also did it for financial reasons, since he was planning on making a mint marketing a test kit.

            Quoting him as your “scientific reason” is like quoting a tobacco company on the health benefits of smoking.

          • Grace Kelly

            He wanted to create his own new measles vaccine, so it would be in his financial interest to blame the MMR.

      • Schneibster

        David, I’m truly sorry for your trouble, but the fact of the matter is that autism starts in the womb long before any vaccines are administered.

        Your misunderstanding of how vaccines work is merely complicating the situation.

        • Timothy Horton

          Damn but you’re a Dunning-Kruger idiot Schneibster. Finding a prenatal biomarker for autism tells you absolutely nothing about whether a vaccine does or does not also increase the risk of autism.

          McCarthy and her anti-vaccine woo is full of it but so are you with your fallacious reasoning. You egotistical desire to be seen as an expert in EVERYTHING and demand that everyone should bow down to your superior knowledge is one of the reasons you get kicked off of so many science boards.

          • Schneibster

            Which is why Wakefield had to fake it and lie, right, stalker?

            And BTW, you should have read the article. Autism is caused by misdevelopment of cells in the cortex during the second and third trimesters of pregnancy.

          • Timothy Horton

            You screwed up again on this one too you Dunning-Kruger star. Trying to impress but making boneheaded mistakes seems to be your trademark. But do keep talking, keep feeding that Zepplin sized ego of yours.

          • Schneibster

            All out of evidence, are we?

            Pitiful, stalker.

          • Timothy Horton

            Dunning-Kruger idiot busted again!

          • Schneibster

            You haven’t answered why Wakefield had to fake it.

          • Timothy Horton

            Wakefield’s nonsense has nothing to do with the big logical error you made Mr. Self Proclaimed Expert In Everything.

            It’s a fact that some people have a genetic disposition to certain types of cancer. That’s not evidence that genetics are the ONLY cause of those cancers and that all other causes are thereby ruled out.

            Damn you’re a slow one.

          • Schneibster

            Sure it does; if you were right about the “logical error” Wakefield would be right.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! The logical error is all yours you blustering horse’s ass.

            Wakefield is a fraud and deserves all that the got. But he wasn’t refuted by pointing out “here’s prenatal cases of autism with no vaccine”. That’s like arguing cigarettes don’t increase the risk of lung cancer because some people who never smoked still got lung cancer.

            You’re just not very intelligent.

          • Schneibster

            So you’re arguing vaccines are responsible for autism. Is that right?

          • Timothy Horton

            Of course when called on your idiotic logic error you start lying. The same MO that got you booted from all those other science boards.

            There’s currently no evidence that suggests vaccines are associated with an increased risk of autism.

            HOWEVER, your stupid error is in not understanding that because some cases of autism are caused before birth with no vaccines base doesn’t mean that all of them are.

            Simple stupid logic error by the self-proclaimed genius.

            You’ll never learn.

          • Schneibster

            “Lying?”

            I quoted the BBC.

            How much methamphetamine did you take today, Timothy Snortin’?

            Meanwhile, ever heard of Occam’s Razor?

            You’re now alleging there are two causes of autism. Without one, single, solitary piece of evidence.

            Speaking of Dunning-Kruger syndrome.

          • Timothy Horton

            Yes lying about what others have written, not about what was in any articles.

            You’re a compulsive liar Schneibster. It’s gotten you banned all over the web at places like ScieceForum.com, FRDB, ScienceForums.org, TalkRational, BadAstronomy, Sandwalk, Pharyngula. Heck, your big mouth even got you banned from Mother Jones! That really took some Class-A asshat behavior. :D

          • Schneibster

            I quoted it.

            See the bold part.

            Before you snort any more meth.

          • Timothy Horton

            You didn’t quote what I wrote. You lied about it.

            You’re a compulsive liar Schneibster. It’s how you try and cover your scientific ignorance. Not working though.

          • Schneibster

            Long before birth. Period.

            Stop lying, stalker.

          • Timothy Horton

            Schneibster still too stupid to understand that identifying ONE cause doesn’t equal the ONLY cause.

          • Schneibster

            “Too” is speled wit tu ooooohs.

            Idiot.

          • Timothy Horton

            Egotistical jackass is spelled “Schneibster”. Too.

          • Schneibster

            Nothing but insults.

            No data at all.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! I pointed out your boneheaded error and all you can do is bluster.

            No scientific understanding at all.

          • Schneibster

            Long before birth.

            On Earth.

            Anti-vaxxers are as persistent as climate cranks and Snowjob dupes.

          • Timothy Horton

            C’mon you scientific illiterate, tell us:

            Does some = all?

          • Schneibster

            What real experiment using slides over limited areas is ever 100%?

            Now stop lying.

          • Timothy Horton

            What real experiment using slides over limited areas ever claimed the results are 100% all inclusive like you’re stupidly doing now?

            Keep up the BSing, it just makes you look all the more ignorant.

          • Schneibster

            Ummm, you’ll need to quote that claim.

            You must be kinda new at the whole logic thing. Making up claims your opponent never made is called a strawman and it’s the most common logical fallacy used by the dishonest and trolls.

            Meanwhile, long before birth.

            Understand, it’s not that they get damaged later. They don’t develop right in the first place. It says so right there in both the BBC and the Guardian, as well as the scholarly literature. Quote unquote. No questions, no doubts, no horseshit.

            Now stop lying.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Look at the hefty clown squirm!

            Does some = all?

            I know that’s a tough one for a boy genius like you.

          • Schneibster

            No biological experiment is 100%.

            Meanwhile, long before birth.

            They can tell it was long before birth in a teenager’s brain necropsy.

            Now stop lying.

          • Timothy Horton

            What about the 10% with autism that show no such brain symptoms?

            Meanwhile does some = all?

            I knew you were scientifically illiterate but I never realized just how ignorant of basic science you really are.

          • Schneibster

            They had conditions that were misidentified as autism.

            Ummduh. No, that’s hardly fair.

            This may be the root of your problem. Really, not everyone diagnosed with autism is suffering from autism; brain damage in the right places can emulate it. This is clear to me but you may not know enough to see why.

          • Timothy Horton

            Now we see the next phase of Schneibster’s MO. Start lying and making things up to cover his ignorance.

          • Schneibster

            Did you not understand the regions of the brain that the problems were shown to be in, according to the linked articles?

            Sorry but this is you proving that you know nothing of the architecture of the human brain.

          • Timothy Horton

            I understand you’re lying and making things up again to CYA.

            Show me where in the article it says 100% of autism cases are caused prenatally.

            You can’t because you’re making it up. You made a stupid claim and now just can’t stop lying to save face.

          • Schneibster

            So you don’t understand the architecture or ontology of the brain.

            Why are you in this conversation again?

            I’m gonna be frank: I think Jenny McCarthy did drugs and drank during her pregnancy and her kid came out with brain damage.

            Quite frankly.

          • Timothy Horton

            I’m a fan of scientific literacy. Watching a scientifically illiterate clown like you trying to bullshit your way through things you don’t understand rubs me the wrong way.

            Isn’t this the part of the dialog where you threaten to sick the police and FBI on me? :D

          • Schneibster

            The ultimate Playboy party girl didn’t have a line or two or a few too many drinks one time?

            Riiiiiiiiight.

            So, TImothy Snortin’, you the baby’s daddy?

          • Schneibster

            So you’re stalking. And admit it.

            Nice to know.

          • Schneibster

            I asked if you swallow. You haven’t answered.

          • Timothy Horton

            Oh boy! You gonna do another of your patented spittle flying meltdowns? The ones you always do when caught in your bullshit and lies?

            How many boards have you been banned from now? I’ve lost count.

          • Schneibster

            You still haven’t answered if you swallow.

            And you also haven’t answered what your justification for a second cause for autism is, nor long before birth.

          • Timothy Horton

            Wow, what a creepy fixation you have!

            I never claimed there is a known second cause for autism you scientifically illiterate boob. I merely pointed out your stupid claim that the study you cited showed there was only one cause is wrong.

            You’re way too scientifically ignorant to get it but others will understand.

          • Schneibster

            No, it’s perfectly simple:

            Long before birth.

            You’re lying and trying to push it through by intimidation.

            There aren’t very many reasons for doing that.

            One of them is you swallow.

            Another is you’re an Aspie and you don’t wanna admit Mommy and Daddy did it to you, not the evil vaccine doctor you’re trying to sue on false pretenses. Mommy and daddy never had sex, right? They’re pure. It’s not their fault.

          • Timothy Horton

            Meltdown initiated!

            Thar she blows!

            :D :D :D :D

          • Schneibster

            Long before birth.

            Next?

          • Timothy Horton

            Does some = all?

            Meltdown in progress!

          • Schneibster

            What’s a meltdown?

            When you post a bunch of lies and then declare someone’s bad because of them?

          • Timothy Horton

            We’re watching yours now.

            One classic Schneibster meltdown tell is you start posting 8 to 10 short no-content insults in a row.

            Just like you’re doing. :D

          • Schneibster

            Long before birth.

            On Earth.

          • Timothy Horton

            Does some = all?

            Meltdown escalating!

          • Schneibster

            Long before birth

            On two real newspapers. And a scientific article.

            Meltdowns increase when you want to suck more hairy balls?

            I mean, that’s the only thing that is increasing here besides your denials.

          • Schneibster

            See, I think you’re its baby daddy and you’re the one with the fucked up genetics.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Here we go!

            Amount of vulgarity increasing, lots of back to back to back posts.

            A classic Schneibster meltdown!

          • Schneibster

            Meanwhile, on Earth, the real scientists have proven autism is caused long before birth, and therefore long before vaccination, despite your lies.

          • Timothy Horton

            Proven eh? Damn Schneibster, you better go tell the national Autism Society

            “CAUSES

            There is no known single cause for autism, but it is generally accepted that it is caused by abnormalities in brain structure or function. Brain scans show differences in the shape and structure of the brain in children with autism versus in neurotypical children. Researchers are investigating a number of theories, including the links among heredity, genetics and medical problems.

            Other researchers are investigating the possibility that under certain conditions, a cluster of unstable genes may interfere with brain development, resulting in autism. Still other researchers are investigating problems during pregnancy or delivery as well as environmental factors such as viral infections, metabolic imbalances and exposure to environmental chemicals.”

            Scientifically illiterate dumbass.

          • Schneibster

            Errr, maybe it doesn’t include, you know, the brand new research article.

            Duh ummm.

            So what’s your angle, sport? Are you trying to bring a lawsuit against someone for giving you a vaccine?

            Sorry dude I think you’re fucked.

          • Timothy Horton

            What new research article proved the single cause of all autism?

            Scientifically illiterate moron.

          • Schneibster

            So you’re claiming that autism-like symptoms that were not caused during second and third trimester by developmental problems, are “autism?” Or that brain damage in these areas, not due to these developmental problems, detectable by genetic testing and profiling, is “autism?”

            I think you are equating a specific genetic problem with any brain damage in these areas, and that it is making diagnosis and treatment more difficult because you obfuscate different conditions.

            I suspect that you are involved in litigation regarding this matter and are prejudiced. Sorry I don’t believe you getting over is more important than the truth.

          • Timothy Horton

            Yet another evasive bullshit non-answer noted
            .
            Scientifically illiterate turd.

          • Schneibster

            So now I know I’m correct. You’re trying to screw someone out of money and you resent me pointing out you’re trying to perpetrate a fraud.

            Good to know, Xe brogrammer.

            Buy now.

          • Schneibster

            What’s a meltdown?

            Is that something you claim happens because of your stalking, stalker?

          • Schneibster

            100% of autism cases are caused prenatally

            If it’s not it’s not autism, it’s postnatal brain damage.

          • Timothy Horton

            Another evasive bullshit non-answer noted.

          • Schneibster

            Another lie without any supporting evidence noted.

          • Schneibster

            You’re a biology nut.

          • Timothy Horton

            You ever find a job yet? You’ve been out of work for some time now sponging off the public dole haven’t you? Pity. I guess your constant bullshitting and abusive personality don’t lend themselves to gainful employment.

            Weren’t you going to sue a talk board for $300K, blaming them for your ineptitude and lack of marketable skills? I suppose that was all hot air too.

            Don’t despair. Maybe this summer you can find temporary work as a land fill.

          • Schneibster

            Heh, sorry sport I haven’t had any government money yet.

            You little kids never understand how finance works.

          • Timothy Horton

            I am comfortable saying that 90% of autism is prenatal.

            But that wasn’t what you were claiming above. You only backpedaled to that position after I pointed out your dumb logic error.

            You’re a bullshitting blustering real piece of work, same as always.

          • Schneibster

            You’re lying again, Timothy Snortin’.

          • Timothy Horton

            Whatever you say Bishop Bashing Bill.

          • Schneibster

            Stalker flagged.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! That’s right Schneibster. All of those hundreds of people who called you on your lies and bullshit on all those other boards you got banned from – they were all stalkers too!

            I wonder what the common thread was?

          • Schneibster

            But only you followed me here.

            I wonder what the common thread was?

            You.

          • Schneibster

            So, do you have any actual evidence, or are you just bringing stalking harassment bullshit?

            I remind you, long before birth which you have not yet answered.

            I am loving the fact that you are trying to intimidate me. It’s totally transparent and proves everything I say is true.

            Bring it on, TImothy Snortin’.

            And I ask yet again, do you swallow?

          • Timothy Horton

            You mean like this?

            “Posted 11 April 2014 – 07:24 AM

            Schneibster has been banned for being apparently unable to proceed in a civil fashion when involved in a disagreement.”

            I can post lots more if you want.

          • Schneibster

            You keep bringing up stuff that happened elsewhere.

            And no evidence about vaccines.

            Flagged off-topic.

            Meanwhile, long before birth.

            And do you swallow?

          • Timothy Horton

            Does your wife know you have this fixation about performing oral sex on men? Maybe you two should discuss it.

            No science at all from the scientifically illiterate bimbo.

          • Schneibster

            I’m not the one who has a fixation on hairy necks and balls. Nor is she.

            That’s you sport.

          • Timothy Horton

            You keep bringing up stuff that happened elsewhere.

            But it happens a lot, in a lot of elsewheres, and always to the same clown for the same reasons.

            Why is that?

          • Schneibster

            Because the Libertardian Brogrammers have infested the Internet.

          • Timothy Horton

            Because the Libertardian Brogrammers have infested the Internet.

            LOL! That’s right Schneibster. All that consilient evidence from all of those independent sources must be a big conspiracy out to get just you!

            Stand your ground! Don’t ever let anyone even suggest it had the slightest bit to do with your own behavior.

            EVAR!

          • Schneibster

            When Mother Jones magazine kicks me off for making a fuss about the Redskins’ name nine months before the NFL starts dealing with it as an issue, sorry but I don’t think that’s “my behavior.” It’s more like “my prediction.”

          • Timothy Horton

            You didn’t get kicked off for arguing against the name “Redskins”. You got kicked off for being a douche exactly as you’re behaving now.

            Great meltdown though!

          • Schneibster

            Gotcha Libertardian.

          • Schneibster

            It doesn’t really matter what you claim, stalker.

            The BBC makes you a liar.

            Long before birth. Quote unquote.

            And Occam’s Razor; you are postulating an additional cause that is unsubstantiated.

          • Schneibster

            Why would anyone care what someone who doesn’t know the difference between “to” and “too” has to say?

            Bring up more extraneous bullshit, maybe everyone will believe you then.

            Good luck.

          • Timothy Horton

            Hey neckbeard, does some = all?

          • Schneibster

            LOL, you must be about twelve.

          • Timothy Horton

            More bluster when he’s too embarrassed to admit he was called on his ignorance. Typical Schneibster.

            Trying to BS your way around science topics with knowledgeable people just doesn’t work. Amazing that you’re still too stupid to have realized that by now after all the times you’ve been banned.

            Self-awareness just isn’t your thing.

          • Schneibster

            I’m not worried about being “embarrassed” by someone with no hair on their private parts.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Now we see the real Schneibster emerge! Caught in his lies and stupidity, can only crawl into the gutter and try a distraction.

          • Schneibster

            You’re the one brought up who’s got hair where. I’d say you’re got by your own… heh, hairs. :D

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Another blatant lie by the scientifically illiterate clown.

            You’re the only one in the whole thread who mentioned hair or private parts. Your obsession with men’s genitalia is pretty creepy.

          • Schneibster

            neckbeard

          • Timothy Horton

            You consider your neck your genitalia? You do seem to be a d**khead but that’s too creepy for words.

          • Schneibster

            Dude you brought up hair.

            I merely pointed out that immature teenagers have no hair.

            What people conclude about you is up to them.

            :D

          • Timothy Horton

            I got hair on my balls, too.

            On your lips also but it all came from other men. Whatever floats your boat.

          • Schneibster

            LOL, twelve year old can’t imagine having hair unless he gets it from an older man.

            Nothing like children trying to make up insults. It’s cute and disgusting at the same time.

            So, do you swallow?

          • Timothy Horton

            “Abnormalities were found in 90% of the children with autism compared with only about 10% of children without.”

            “If this new report of disorganised architecture in the brains of some children with autism is replicated, we can presume this reflects a process occurring long before birth.”

            I highlighted the key words for you Mr. Genius.

            Does 90% = 100% in Schneibster fantasy world?

            Does some = all?

            Damn you’re an idiot.

          • Timothy Horton

            You should have read the actual paper like I did instead of regurgitating your layman’s misunderstanding of a popular press article. The researchers identified a strong correlation between early brain development and autism in children. They did not claim to identify THE cause of autism, nor did they rule out postnatal effects that may have contributed to the observed brain physiology of people with a predisposition to autism. Again the sample size was extremely small. Not all children with the brain condition had autism, some children without the condition still had autism.

            Identifying A cause, even a likely one is not the same as finding THE ONLY cause.

            Go after the woo merchants like McCarthy all you want but don’t bastardize and misrepresent the actual scientific data through your pitiful ignorance and desire to be Mr. Blustering Big Shot.

          • Schneibster

            I read the paper.

            It says “long before birth.”

          • Timothy Horton

            Lying jackass is lying again.

            The layman’s article you regurgitated used the phrase. The paper never does.

            You never even looked at the paper.

          • Schneibster

            What “lying?”

            Are you denying it says “long before birth?”

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26750786

            The changes were dotted about in brain regions involved in social and emotional communication, and language, long before birth, they say.

            You’re denying this?

          • Timothy Horton

            That’s right Gasbag, the original Stoner et al paper referenced in your layman’s article never says “long before birth”.

            If you claim differently go ahead and C&P the paragraph from the actual paper with the phrase in it.

            You won’t of course because you’re lying again. You never read the actual paper and once again are trying to bullshit your way through.

            Scientifically illiterate prevaricator

          • Schneibster

            Long before birth.

            On Earth.

            Weirdo conspiracy crank claims the BBC is lying.

          • Timothy Horton

            Lying gasbag Schneibster.

            In his own prevaricating narcissistic world.

          • Schneibster

            Nutjob crank thinks it’s not psychotic to claim the BBC is lying.

            Please someone give him thorazine soon.

          • Timothy Horton

            You’re the one lying about having read the actual paper Gasbag, not the BBC.

            Lying and bullshitting is all you know, and I have no problems rubbing your nose in it.

          • Schneibster

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            Researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine and the Allen Institute for Brain Science have published a study that gives clear and direct new evidence that autism begins during pregnancy.

            Emphasis mine.

            First sentence of the press release.

            Now stop lying, Snortin’ stalker.

          • Timothy Horton

            That’s still not the actual paper you lying lumpshit.

            You never read the actual paper. YOU LIED and you got caught lying.

            It’s hilarious now watching you bounce and squirm to cover that fat bullshitting ass.

          • Schneibster

            New England Journal of Medicine:

            As assessed on pathological analysis, an excess of neurons in the prefrontal cortex among children with autism signals a disturbance in prenatal development and may be concomitant with abnormal cell type and laminar development.

            http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1307491

            Oh and nice try defaming the University of California at San Diego School of Medicine and the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

            Now go whine it’s paywalled, asshole Snortin’ stalker.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! The ignorant gasbag finally went and looked up the abstract! Too funny!

            You still haven’t read the actual paper you lying sack of ratshit. The actual paper still doesn’t claim to have identified THE ONLY cause of autism, nor does it use the phrase “long before birth”

            Keep bullshitting Schneibster the Asshole. it’s about the only skill you have. :D

          • Schneibster

            So you deny the NEJM, the San Diego School of Medicine, the Allen Institute for Brain Science, and the BBC.

            Just so we’re clear.

            You understand the SDSM and Allen Institute press release says autism begins during pregnancy, right?

          • Timothy Horton

            The only thing clear is you got caught lying about having read the actual paper.

            All the rest is just your blustering bullshitting ass tying to squirm out of your embarrassmant.

          • Schneibster

            Autism begins during pregnancy.

            On Earth.

            According to the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine and the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            You claim they’re lying.

            You’re psychotic.

          • Timothy Horton

            Some, maybe even most. No evidence offered or claimed by the researchers that it’s every case.

            Schneibster gets caught lying again.

            Everywhere he posts.

          • Schneibster
          • Timothy Horton

            Some does certainly. No evidence or claim that every case does.

            Schneibster lies about having read the paper, gets his lying bullshitting ass exposed.

            And it ain’t pretty.

          • Schneibster
          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Oh lookie, the proven liar is going to do his pouting little kid act. You’re not going to cry again are you?

            Schneibster lies about having read the paper, gets his lying bullshitting ass exposed.

            And it ain’t pretty.

          • Schneibster

            Autism begins during pregnancy.

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            Autism begins long before birth. Title of the article in the BBC.

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26750786

            Now stop lying.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Another great Schneibster meltdown after getting caught lying!

            Schneibster lies about having read the paper, gets his lying bullshitting ass exposed.

            And it ain’t pretty.

          • Schneibster

            Autism begins during pregnancy.

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            Autism begins long before birth. Title of the article in the BBC.

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26750786

            Now quit lying.

          • Timothy Horton

            BIG LOL! Schneibster is a liar and a bullshit artist second to none but he’s not very bright.

            Schneibster lies about having read the paper, gets his lying bullshitting ass exposed.

            And it ain’t pretty.

          • Schneibster

            an excess of neurons in the prefrontal cortex among children with autism signals a disturbance in prenatal development

            http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1307491

            Autism begins during pregnancy.

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            Autism begins long before birth. Title of the article in the BBC.

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26750786

            Now stop lying. Three sources, liar. You are faced.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! The blubbering clownboy still didn’t read the paper.

            There’s still no evidence or claim that’s the ONLY cause.

            Schneibster lies about having read the paper, gets his lying bullshitting ass exposed.

            And it ain’t pretty.

          • Schneibster

            Spammer flagged.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! “flagged” for pointing out that you got caught lying about reading a paper you never even looked at.

            Good one! :D :D :D

            That’s OK Schneibster, go have yourself a good cry. You can think up some more big porkies tomorrow.

          • Schneibster

            Spammer flagged.

          • Timothy Horton

            Says the assclown who just C&Ped the identical thing six times in a row.

            Told you Schneibster isn’t very bright.

          • Schneibster

            No, I added another source each time.

            You’re lying again.

          • Timothy Horton

            And I added a side comment each time.

            Face it Schneibs – you got caught lying and bullshitting. It wasn’t the first time you’ve been called on your compulsive dishonesty and it certainly won’t be the last.

            If you don’t like being called on it then quit lying and bullshitting about science.

          • Schneibster

            Sorry, I got three sources you got jack shit.

            Eat my shorts.

          • Timothy Horton

            Yeah, you are a sorry gasbag. Three sources which don’t support the idea that 100% of autism cases are prenatal.

            The real paper you didn’t read but merely lied about reading.

            Like I said, I have no problem calling you on your compulsive bullshitting and lying. You seem to be determined to find that out empirically.

          • Schneibster

            an excess of neurons in the prefrontal cortex among children with autism signals a disturbance in prenatal development

            http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1307491

            Autism begins during pregnancy.

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            Autism begins long before birth. Title of the article in the BBC.

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26750786

            Three sources, liar.

            Eat my shorts. The old ones with holes in them, that I dribbled a bit on, so my wife doesn’t have to clean them and I can buy new ones.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! The same three sources which don’t support the idea that 100% of autism cases are prenatal.

            You could post them fifty times and they still won’t support your idiot misunderstanding of the research.

            Schneibster lies about having read the paper, gets his lying bullshitting ass exposed.

            Gasbag Schneibster melting down ain’t pretty.

          • Schneibster

            “Autism” != “any kind of brain damage.”

            This is duh. And so is Snortin’ Timothy the Trailer Trash Meth Cookin’ Libertardian. Go make another batch of meth, Snortin’.

          • Timothy Horton

            What’s really duh is having a scientifically illiterate idiot get caught lying about having read a paper and making an equally stupid claim based on his ignorance and misunderstanding.

            Nothing that hasn’t happened with you a thousand times before.

          • Schneibster

            an excess of neurons in the prefrontal cortex among children with autism signals a disturbance in prenatal development

            http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1307491

            Autism begins during pregnancy.

            http://health.ucsd.edu/news/releases/Pages/2014-03-26-cortical-layer-disruption-and-autism.aspx

            Autism begins long before birth. Title of the article in the BBC.

            http://www.bbc.com/news/health-26750786

            Now stop lying, Snortin’ Timothy the Trailer Trash Meth Master.

          • Timothy Horton

            Obsessive compulsive retard spotted!

            Great meltdown Schneibster! At least an 8 out of 10.

          • Schneibster

            Providing real evidence is now “obsessive compulsive?”

            So, tell, us, Snortin’ Timothy the Trailer Trash Meth Master, do you make up a new claim of a psychological disorder for every statement of truth you don’t like? It sure looks that way, given what you’ve said so far.

          • Timothy Horton

            Damn Schneibster, you’re spraying so much spittle with your latest lying idiot meltdown you’re getting flecks on my keyboard! :D

          • Schneibster

            Ummm, sorry, looks to me like the New England Journal of Medicine, the San Diego School of Medicine, the BBC, and several others think you’re a crank, Timothy Snortin’ the Trailer Trash Meth Master.

          • Timothy Horton

            How would you know Gasbag? You never read the actual paper, just lied about having read it.

            That’s why you’ll stay an ignorant gasbag your whole life.

          • Schneibster

            Sonny, you are lying. Everyone can see.

            It’s time to stop, racist asshole.

            I am watching the game where they say you are a racist asshole, racist asshole. You suck. Eat my shorts, racist asshole.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! You’re the one who got caught lying about reading the Stoner et al paper.

            It’s all documented above Gasbag for everyone to see.

            Must really suck for you to get caught lying all the time.

          • Schneibster

            And it’s you who disrespect Jackie Robinson.

            And baseball.

            And America.

          • Timothy Horton

            LOL! Damn Schneibster, you really are a retard!

          • Schneibster

            Figured. You’re a Libertardian liar.

            Keep trying to lie, Libertardian.

          • Timothy Horton

            I bet Jackie Robinson never lied about having read a science paper. Puts him one up on you. :D

          • Schneibster

            Betcha you haven’t read as many scholarly papers as Jenny McCarthy. :D

          • Schneibster

            So, you’re Chinese.

            Why did you choose “timothy?”

          • Schneibster

            I guess I shouldn’t have expected an asshole from China to respect baseball.

            Or not to be racist. The Chinese are the most racist people in the World.

          • Timothy Horton

            WOW!

            Schneibster the lying gasbag’s slobber flying meltdown knob goes to 11!

          • Schneibster

            Why do you keep trying to lie?

            It’s totally transparent.

          • Schneibster

            Spammer flagged again.

            This is a standard Libertardian technique to try to wear out the libruls. The best response is to stop responding and just keep reporting it.

          • Timothy Horton

            The BBC article isn’t the actual paper you braying ass.

            You never read the actual paper. I did. I have it right in front of me.

            You’re way too scientifically ignorant to read an actual scientific paper. That’s why you have to lie and try to bullshit all the time.

          • Aaron Litz

            Who the fuck are you and what the fuck is your problem? You are adding nothing to this conversation but distraction with your personal attacks that have absolutely zero to do with the topic at hand.

            Go away you fucking troll.

          • Timothy Horton

            Feel free to back up Schneibster’s idiotic claim that science proved 100% of autism causes are prenatal. Schneibster couldn’t, although his “suck my penis” and “do you swallow” comments probably added to the conversation for you.

      • Walker By Nature

        And how many were paid to discover these findings like Dr Wakefield was? (Before you go tooting the trumpet of brilliance in Dr Wakefield’s favor be mindful of the fact he was forced to retract his false claims of the discovery of a link between vaccinations and conditions, such as autism, BY A MEDICAL BOARD.)

        I
        am sorry that you, and other parents have children with awful health
        conditions David, truly; I have been blessed & fortunate to have two
        healthy children. But herd immunity only works if the entire herd is
        immune; and that is coming from several of my friends who are nurses
        with medical degrees in their field. Parents who are choosing to NOT
        immunize their children are gambling with losing their children to
        diseases making a resurgence like measles, whooping cough, and many
        others – diseases that KILL the children. If you honestly feel that
        your son is worse off living with his condition than he would be if
        you’d NOT immunized him and left him vulnerable to life threatening
        illnesses then I question that thinking. I’ve no doubt you love your
        son, but that is an awful thing to say.

        My mother lost my younger sister to an awful disease when she was only 6 months old. Nearly forty years later she still feels that she is in someway responsible despite the fact she was absolutely, in no way, responsible for my sister’s death – it was meningitis that had gone undiagnosed. My step mother’s daughter-in-law has two children, her son was born with autism. She too blamed herself for his autism. Blaming ones self, or looking for someone else to shoulder the blame (i.e. a doctor who immunized a child) is not doing any good for the child. Perhaps that could be where Jenny was coming from? I’m no psychiatrist; I only know that the two people I’ve mentioned above blamed themselves, and I’m sure many other parents do the same, or start looking for someone/thing else to point the finger at. More and more I’ve begun to question if parents with children who have these awful conditions (and I’m NOT downplaying how sad it is when it happens to children) are just looking for some way to deflect a deep-seeded personal feeling of guilt.

        Vaccinations had quelled the cries of parents devastated by disease taking their babies from them. I would never wish ill of any child, but shame on the parents gambling with those children’s health, and safety. And shame on people like yourself, and Jenny McCarthy who would say such things to encourage it.

        Fact of the matter is: Jenny McCarthy is backpeddling. She doesn’t want to be seen for what she really is, an anti-vaxxer. If it walks like a duck…

      • Kim Williams

        And I have a grandson with Autism who showed obvious signs before his first vaccines were even given. He was premature & the doctors decided that vaccines should wait until 6-8 months.

        I want to take away your vaccine & expose you to Polio. Since, you know, according to your post “Vaccine have never been documented to help with any disease.”

        • David

          No one believes that autism is exclusively the result of the vaccines. All the recent outbreaks of various conditions occurred in vaccinated populations.. No vaccine has been shown to be effective and if you look at the record.. Almost all were cured by clean water and better sanitation..
          These false choices are simply based in lies.. Take the poisons or get polio..this is the claptrap of the uneducated.
          The unvaccinated are always proven healthier..this is why these simple and valuable normal studies are not so often repeated.. Internationally.. Vaccines are being phased out. Antibiotics.. Which almost killed me..are also soon to not be used since the damage is so great..
          The scandal here is overwhelming.. We have generations of damaged citizens.. Billions spent to inflict the poisons to profiteering drug companies and then billions in compensation to a few of the victims.. Admitting the truth might bankrupt all governments.

      • alexjonesisanidiot

        Shut the fuck up.

      • Kaya-Xen Esjaha

        Aspergers is not the reason a kid can’t go to college, or get into a relationship. I have aspergers, and I am not very high functioning aspergers, yet I am married, and I am going to college this fall. I am not poisoned, I am healthy and well. All I have different is a hypersensitive brain, which makes me different but not diseased or poisoned. I might be able to see your position better if you had a child with severe autism because there has been a lot more stress in those homes, (though they can still lead effective lives). But Aspergers is on the high functioning side, and so I cannot understand why you feel like it is a poison. I love myself for who I am and I have aspergers. My childhood was not very fine and dandy either, yet I still made it, and your son can to. Start believing in his ability to lead a fulfilling life, because even if his life isn’t “normal” it can still be lived in happiness and joy. All we ever need is for people to believe in us.

      • eyeballpizza

        It’s your genetics that has caused your child to get Aspergers, not the vaccines.

        • David

          Except for the fact poison cause genetics to alter, this comment is wrong on its face. Genetic causes are reflected in tiny changes in affected populations– not massive epidemics.

          Vaccines are not the only cause but a significant part of the explanation we are witnessing the destruction of the population and high autism rates follow high vaccine rates very closely. No vaccines, no autism and better health is the constant pattern. Facts are stubborn things. Get the facts, refuse these poisons which are neither safe nor effective.

          Zero chance this is wrong. The evidence is overwhelming–we have always known vaccination is a menace and we do it anyway. This is pure and simple the crudest form of abuse in modern history.

          Liberals feign phony compassion when a couple dozen kids are killed in a school–but when hundreds and thousands are killed by the medical mob with the support of the government there is total silence. Millions are negatively impacted by these poisons.

  • Schneibster

    They just found out that autism can be predicted in the womb.

    So much for the vaccine theory.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-26/autism-begins-as-brain-cells-altered-in-womb-study-finds.html

    Jenny McCarthy is an idiot. And she’s responsible for little kids who got measles on their eyes and are now blind.

    • muad’dib

      No. The parents of those children are idiots. Jenny McCarthy did not single-handedly make the decision for them that they do not need to be vaccinated. If you are a parent and you don’t weigh the facts of your decision, and if you yield your intellect to the “halo-effect” of a celebrity, you may very well be stupid, and irresponsible, and your children will suffer for your lack of thinking.

      • Schneibster

        I would say “think of it as evolution in action,” quite frankly, except that these parents also want to send their kids to school, and at school there are kids who can’t be vaccinated, who can only depend on herd immunity to protect them. I think any anti-vaxxer parent of a kid who took measles to school and caused one of those kids who can’t be vaccinated to be maimed or killed should be sued into the stone age.

        But Jenny McCarthy is the one who spread the bullshit. And she has responsibility. It may not diminish the parents’, your point is correct there, but hers still remains.

  • Jason E

    Never take healthcare advice from a celebrity who endorses electronic cigarettes or a preacher in a mega-church.

    • Sabyen91

      As a smoker who has cut down a lot by using e-cigs I fully endorse them for those who smoke.

      • Schneibster

        Watch out for the nicotine. It does as much damage as everything else together; don’t fool yourself.

        Cancer isn’t the big killer of smokers; it’s heart disease.

        • Sabyen91

          Using e-cigs is far better than smoking cigarettes and my body is feeling much better. Considering how many times I have tried to quit, I will take it.

          • Schneibster

            You’re saving a lot of wear-n-tear not sucking down all that smoke, but don’t fool yourself, my friend. I speak from the far side of five heart attacks.

          • Sabyen91

            Baby steps for the addictive personalities in the crowd. But thanks for the concern.

          • Schneibster

            Want you around, buddy! ;)

        • dbtheonly

          Don’t discount emphysema.

          • Schneibster

            Only if you live long enough. Most smokers don’t.

          • dbtheonly

            Hey Schneibster, I’m not going to argue which death is more likely. You & Sayben are both around & that’s good enough for me.

          • Schneibster

            Actually, I had a grandmother who died of emphysema.

          • dbtheonly

            And it got my Mom. Ugly way to die.

          • Schneibster

            Yep. That has to be worse; I was maybe only eight when she died; I only saw her three times on oxygen, gasping and wheezing, so it didn’t affect me like it must have you.

          • dbtheonly

            Blessedly got to miss the whole thing. I was on the other side of the continent. But thanks for the concern. It is appreciated.

        • Helena Lake

          Curious. Do you also consider nicotine gum and patches to do “as much damage as everything else together”?

          • Schneibster

            Depends on how much nicotine you get. It’s the nicotine that makes the coronary artery damage that leads to atherosclerosis that leads to heart disease. Not to mention strokes, but that’s only if you live long enough.

          • Helena Lake

            Okay… but a significant amount of the health issues with smoking are related to cardio-pulmonary damage. CODP and emphysema also contribute to CHF and stroke. n Smoking has significant comorbidities that nicotine by itself does not.

            Nocotine is certainly not safe; that is not in question. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to imply that e-cigarettes or other substitution products are just as bad as cigarettes, cigars, or chew. At a minimum, they’re missing the carcinogens as well as several of the more immediate toxins.

            On the one hand, I would say that Sabyen is correct: e-cigs are much better than smoking as a first step. On the other hand, however, you are also correct to a limited degree in that nicotine by itself is also harmful, and Sabyen would be doing himself a disservice if xe assumed that e-cigs were “safe”.

          • Schneibster

            As harmful as both together? Of course not. But that’s not what I said.

          • Helena Lake

            Then your post was unclear. Would you mind restating it?

          • Schneibster

            Why? I’ve reread it, it looks correct to me.

          • Helena Lake

            Well of course it looks correct to you – you already know what you intend to say, you already know your own mind. To outside observers, however, it isn’t quite as clear. I’m asking you to expand on your original post, add more of your thoughts, and clarify your original sentiment. It was unclear to me – specifically because I don’t have the luxury of knowing your intentions and the subtext that exists within your mind. All I have is the few words on the page.

            Restating it gives you the opportunity to ensure that there is no miscommunication. It also gives me the opportunity to ensure that I understand what you intend to say, rather than trying to guess. Especially when you’ve said that what I inferred was incorrect. Please make your statement clearer for me.

          • Schneibster

            Please specify what’s wrong with it. It seems perfectly clear to me. I am on the edge of concluding you’re trolling me and starting to make fun of you.

          • Helena Lake

            You seem needlessly argumentative.

            Consider: I understand what I said perfectly; I can’t understand why you might not understand why what I think is perfectly clear to me and not to you. Therefore I conclude that you’re full of crap and I will mock you instead of trying to find common ground with which to continue a friendly conversation.

            Does this seem like a logical and rational stance to you?

          • Schneibster

            So you can’t say.

            It’s just “wrong.”

            Now, who is needlessly argumentative again?

            Project much?

            Just askin’.

            If you want to have a conversation then you have to stop pretending asking you what the flying fuck you’re talking about is an “attack.”

          • Helena Lake

            “Watch out for the nicotine. It does as much damage as everything else together; don’t fool yourself.

            Cancer isn’t the big killer of smokers; it’s heart disease.”

            In this post, you imply two things: 1) That nicotine ALONE does AS MUCH DAMAGE as all of the tar, smoke, arsenic and other chemicals and toxins in cigarette smoke and 2) that nicotine causes heart disease but that all the other things only cause cancer.

            That is the implication of your post, which completely ignores COPD, emphysema, CHF, stroke, and all of the comorbidities that are related to smoking.

            I am giving you the opportunity to amend your post. In return, you have been somewhat ungracious and rude to someone you’ve just met. What gives?

          • Schneibster

            As for your first “implication,” that’s right, it does.

            As for the second, you’re making shit up.

            I think you’re a troll.

            Next?

          • Helena Lake

            Please provide some source to support your claim that nicotine alone does as much damage as all of the other elements in cigarettes combined.

            As for the rest of your post… You’ve now called me a troll, and a liar, with no provocation. Which makes you well beyond merely rude and ungracious. I haven’t “made up” anything. That is a clear implication from your post. If you disagree with that interpretation, then I invite you yet once more to restate your post and expand on what you really meant so that you can be more clear.

            Otherwise, you’re merely being an a**hole for no good reason at all.

          • Schneibster

            No. I don’t waste time on trolls.

          • Helena Lake

            Please specify what I’ve lied about.

            As far as i can tell, you calling me a liar is nothing more than a dodge. You don’t want to have to provide a source for your pulled-out-of-your-backside claim, and you don’t want to have to face up to having made an unclear statement. Apparently you’re not mature enough to simply admit that you weren’t as clear as you thought and simply restate it like a normal, well-adjusted adult would do. Rather, you resort to name calling and infantile snottiness. I do hope you’re proud of yourself.

          • Schneibster

            No. I don’t waste time on trolls and I already did specify it anyway.

            You’re lying again.

          • Helena Lake

            You didn’t specify anything. Simply saying it isn’t specificity. What specifically was a lie in your opinion?

            I’ve lied about nothing. You’re full of crap.

          • Helena Lake

            And a self-absorbed bully who can’t see which end is up, due to your head being so far up your own backside that you’ve lost all perspective ;)

          • Schneibster

            Ummm, duh, what I said above. Go read it again. If you’re not bright enough to figure it out you’re not bright enough to be worth wasting time talking to.

          • Helena Lake

            Lol. You’re a waste of time. “Because I said so” doesn’t cut it you fool. Take your old and moldy blustering somewhere else. I have better things to do than to worry about some ancient addled blowhard like you who can’t keep track of his own conversation and obviously can’t read above a 2nd grade level.

          • Schneibster

            You can lie all you like.

            It’s still lying.

            Flagged. You’re a stalker.

    • ToThePoint

      Jenny McCarthy does some things well. Like posing nude. She should just stick with that.
      Most people already know not to take medical advice from a Playboy model.

      • Schneibster

        That’s pretty sexist.

        • Lady Willpower

          The woman made her career as a nude model. It’s not sexist to point out this is the only thing she’s really famous for. Is there something else she’s really good at that I haven’t heard about?

          • Schneibster

            The Schneibsteress disapproves and I agree. It’s still sexist. She’s a personality, now that she’s made herself one.

            If she did that on the strength of her anti-vaxxer BS, so much the worse; but that’s both more heinous, and less sexist, than making fun of her modelling career.

            I think we can criticize her for her stance on vaccines without bringing nude modelling into it.

          • Lady Willpower

            I don’t know who ToThePoint is. It has nothing to do with my disdain for Jenny McCarthy.
            Anyway, I disagree with both you guys. McCarthy’s famous for taking her clothes off, and traditionally speaking that’s not the province of brilliant thinkers. That doesn’t mean you have to be stupid to take off your clothes, or that nudity precludes intelligence. The point is that no one would have ever noticed her if she hadn’t gotten naked. We should never have been giving her a forum in the first place.

          • Schneibster

            So being Playboy Centerfold material disqualifies you from having a voice in free speech of a cause you support, even if it’s wrong? I know you don’t believe that.

            I would never disrespect her that much. She may be an idiot, and fully deserve your disdain; in fact, I think you’re justified in disdaining her. But that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t speak out on what she believes.

            Nor that she shouldn’t pay the price when it turns out that what she believed was wrong and harmful. In fact, i think she needs to be the object lesson in this.

            But it’s still wrong and sexist to use her nude modelling career against her.

          • Sabyen91

            No, it doesn’t disqualify one but if that is the ONLY reason people listen to you you should probably not embarrass yourself with stupidity.

          • Schneibster

            You are probably overestimating her capacity. She may, repeat may, learn from this that, as someone said below, maternity does not come with a medical certificate.

          • Lady Willpower

            Sorry, I just don’t agree.

          • Schneibster

            Your free not to, but without evidence you’re not very likely to be right.

          • Lady Willpower

            Evidence? We’re just talking about opinions. What evidence could there be?

            Look, when someone becomes famous for a job that has nothing to do with brainpower, it’s fair to bring up that job. And later, when that someone wants to be taken seriously as an important thinker their previous (100% non-cerebral) career is relevant. It has absolutely nothing to do with his/her gender and everything to do with the job.

            All I can do is give you a different example, an example that gets the same response from me: Baseball player Carl Everett had a pretty nice career with the Mets, Atros and Red Sox. On the field he was an All-Star. Off the field he was a fucking dope. He gave several interviews where he said there was no such thing as dinosaurs– because “no one ever saw them.” He also questioned the veracity of the Moon Landing and stated unequivocally “I don’t believe in being gay.”

            Upon hearing these idiotic thoughts most people would think it’s totally fair to deride Carl Everett as “just another dumb ballplayer” because playing baseball doesn’t require brainpower. It’s not “sexist” to say that, it’s just a statement of fact. Athletes don’t have to be smart. Some are, but it’s hardly a requirement. Everett was physically gifted but mentally stunted. Same with Jenny Mac. It had nothing to do with him being a man or her being a woman. It’s the JOB, and the fact that their jobs did not require thinking.

          • Schneibster

            But somehow it’s always the women models who get made fun of.

            Sorry, you do or you don’t. Make up your mind. If you’re against prejudice don’t be prejudiced.

            Her words may prove her to be an idiot.

            Being a beautiful woman model does not. Neither does being a ballplayer.

          • Lady Willpower

            I heard her words then made my decision. That is the exact opposite of prejudice. If this is the hill you want to die on, by my guest. I don’t agree with you.

          • Schneibster

            But that statement is not consistent with the statement I’m calling sexist.

            >shrug<

          • Timothy Horton

            We’ll also keep in mind that Schneibster is the narcissistic compulsive liar and poster boy for Dunning-Kruger who has been banned from a dozen different science discussion boards in the last few years for his obnoxious anti-social behavior.

            What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

          • Schneibster

            Sooooo, sock puppet and stalk much?

            Just askin’.

          • http://cendax.wordpress.com/ Norbrook

            The only reason she had the platform she does is because she looked good naked, had lots of pictures taken of her being naked, and then leveraged that into various reality shows, minor acting jobs, and famous boyfriends. If it hadn’t been for her “fame” from that, she’d have been just another one of the numerous cranks out there. Pointing out the reason for her fame, that her educational background is not in immunology or medicine, and that it gives her zero credentials to pontificate to the public at large is not “sexist.” It’s the reality.

          • Schneibster

            Ummmm, actually it’s pretty sexist.

            On Earth.

          • RachelB

            It’s sexist to say that she was just a foolish woman, using only gender as an example of why she shouldn’t be taken seriously. It’s not sexist to make the point that her prior modelling career isn’t the sort of career that would give one much leverage in the scientific community. The CEO of a finance company wouldn’t be the first person you’d ask for advice on building a rocket because their field of expertise is not relevant, just like a former model and current talk show host (who holds no medical degrees or qualifications) has no obvious medical or scientific background to give her opinion any weight.
            I appreciate the point you’re trying to make and I agree that no one should be dismissed as unintelligent based on their career choice. She’s made a lot of money through nude and other modelling and her film and tv ventures, so she’s got some kind of business savvy at least.
            But the fact does remain that she first came into the public eye through Playboy and television show hosting, and at no point throughout her twenty year or so long career has she gained notoriety for her academic pursuits.
            While I totally agree she has the right to her opinions and to voice them from the public platform she’s built for herself, we also have the right to not take them seriously considering that platform was built on a career that in no way qualifies her as an expert on the topic at hand. It’s not sexism to dismiss Jenny McCarthy, (or any other entertainers who try to style themselves as health gurus with no relevant training in that field), especially when she opens her mouth and removes any doubt that she has nothing intelligent to contribute.
            All the best to you and your wife.

          • Schneibster

            Thanks for your thoughtful post. I have no problem with attacking her for lack of knowledge; nor despising her for causing a lot of parents to fail to vaccinate their kids.

            I have a problem with making fun of her for being a nude model. Sorry but that’s pretty sexist. No amount of anti-vaxxer lies justifies that.

          • ToThePoint

            Except that I wasn’t “making fun” of Jenny McCarthy being a nude model. I acknowledged that she did it well.

            The comprehension problem is singularly yours, Schneibster. It appears the essence of my post registered with everyone else ITT.

          • Schneibster

            Oh, stop.

            You were making a sexist joke about her because she was a nude model.

            Your pathetic attempts to lie about what you said, above in black and white, are making it clearer and clearer what you are.

            Also, the argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy.

        • ToThePoint

          Except that I wasn’t “making fun” of Jenny McCarthy being a nude model. I acknowledged that she did it well.
          The comprehension problem is singularly yours, Schneibster. It appears everyone else ITT managed to get the essence of my comment.

          • Schneibster

            Sorry, personal attacks won’t persuade me.

            It was sexist and that’s what I expect from you.

      • ToThePoint

        Except that I wasn’t “making fun” of Jenny McCarthy being a nude model. I acknowledged that she did it well.
        The comprehension problem is singularly yours, Schneibster. It appears everyone else ITT got the essence of it.