Yes, White Belly Dancing Is Inexcusable Cultural Appropriation

FILED TO: Society and Culture

(Trigger Warning: Words)

There’s a fine column running right now over at the always-excellent that confronts one of the most pressing issues of our time. The scourge of ethnic, racial, and cultural appropriation has run rampant throughout this country for decades and it looks as if, now, finally, those who’ve had their way of life used as props for the pleasure of the privileged are ready to stand up to it. In a piece called “Why I Can’t Stand White Belly Dancers,” writer Randa Jarrar discusses the pain she feels when Americans don “Arab Face” and engage in a form of dance that is a symbol of her culture and should be reserved only for its use.

She’s harsh in her assessment, as she should be.

Women I have confronted about this have said, “But I have been dancing for 15 years! This is something I have built a huge community on.” These women are more interested in their investment in belly dancing than in questioning and examining how their appropriation of the art causes others harm. To them, I can only say, I’m sure there are people who have been unwittingly racist for 15 years. It’s not too late. Find another form of self-expression. Make sure you’re not appropriating someone else’s…

Arab women are not vessels for white women to pour themselves and lose themselves in; we are not bangles or eyeliner or tiny bells on hips. We are human beings. This dance form is originally ours, and does not exist so that white women can have a better sense of community; can gain a deeper sense of sisterhood with each other; can reclaim their bodies; can celebrate their sexualities; can perform for the female gaze. Just because a white woman doesn’t profit from her performance doesn’t mean she’s not appropriating a culture. And, ultimately, the question is this: Why does a white woman’s sisterhood, her self-reclamation, her celebration, have to happen on Arab women’s backs?

Hear, hear, sister in the struggle. As one indignant woman of Arab heritage, our country as a whole should submissively defer to your views on anything involving Arab culture, since you speak for all Arabs against the tyranny of white American privilege. While so-called belly dancing may be viewed by some as a celebration of Arabic cultures, and its proliferation as a means of spreading knowledge of those cultures, the reality is, I’m sorry to say, deeply problematic. It’s not appreciation, it’s appropriation!*

With that in mind, I think it’s finally time that we made it clear to all within the entitled class — the members of the white cisexual-heteronormative patriarchy and even matriarchy — what qualifies as appropriation, even societally accepted appropriation, so that we can put a stop to it immediately. I’ve taken the liberty of creating some rules and guidelines that provide examples of unacceptable cultural appropriation. Please make a note of them.

1. Eating at Chinese restaurants by white Americans and other majority non-Chinese should be looked down upon, as it entails the physical ingestion of Chinese culture.

2. Anyone who suffers a serious but non-permanent physically debilitating injury shouldn’t be allowed the use of a wheelchair, as this is an ableist appropriation of differently abled culture.

3. Members of the privileged and oppressive white majority should never, under any circumstances, expose themselves to black entertainment or express an appreciation for it. Jay Z is for black men and women only and the producers of 12 Years a Slave should give back the film’s Best Picture Oscar in the name of making a direct statement against appropriation. The same goes for Latino entertainment. Production on Machete Kills in Space by Open Road Films should be halted immediately.

4. Under no circumstances should members of the privileged class give their children ethnic names without the express written consent of a majority of that culture or a dual ruling from the staff of and that woman who runs Shakesville. Anglo Americans specifically should be required to research proposed names for their children to ensure that the meaning of each name has no ethnic connotation going back at least four generations. Also, no Biblical names unless one is Jewish or otherwise related by blood to the cultures of the Middle East and holy land.

5. Heterosexuals or members of the heteronormative patriarchy may not, during karaoke, perform the version of Willkommen made famous by Alan Cumming in the 1998 Broadway revival of Cabaret, as that would be an immeasurable appropriation of gay and bisexual culture. Likewise, no one outside of the LGBT, specifically the trans, community should be allowed to watch and enjoy RuPaul’s Drag Race.

These are just a few suggestions for creating the kind of inoffensive, constantly deferential, culturally isolationist world we as liberals should be striving for.

The good news is that today’s piece is apparently part of an ongoing series on the intersectionalist grievances of feminist women of color, which means we have many more insightful opinions like Randa Jarrar’s to look forward to. The fight for one very specific view of social justice — which we aim to strong-arm into reality, or else — is just beginning.

Now I’m going to write an outraged letter to WordPress demanding that the red line under “intersectionalist” denoting that it’s not a real word be removed immediately.

* Get your “It’s Not Appreciation, It’s Appropriation!” t-shirt now at Cafe Press:

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  • AbsolutGrndZer0

    I think this article makes a good point (love the sarcasm :) ), but I would like to give my thoughts.

    I do think that there is a fine line between ‘appreciation’ and ‘appropriation’ and it isn’t always clear when it’s been crossed. Sometimes it is, like Katy Perry I love her music but she is the WORST cultural appropriator today. Other times, not so much. Like when Avril Lavigne made her Hello Kitty video a lot of people here in America threw a fit, but was it really appropriation? Avril Lavigne is more popular in Japan than she is in America and the entire video was made, produced, directed and everything by Sony Japan. Americans only saw it first because it accidentally got uploaded to her American VEVO page a day early by accident. It got so bad (here in America, most Japanese media was like “Whaaaaaaaaaat? We love Avril!”) that the Japanese Embassy in Washington D.C. spoke out in defense of Avril. Was she wrong? Being white it’s not my place to truly say, but when the Japanese Embassy makes a statement in her defense… um… yeah.

    So, while I very much DO think white people (and I am white, full disclosure) need to be both aware AND careful, I also think the goal should be to educate about making sure we don’t cross the line.

  • Marina Doshkevich

    Any time you want to stop wearing jeans, or plaid, or anything else invented and popularized by white Americans or Europeans, then you can complain about cultural appropriation, not before that. When are people going to stop stealing and enjoying the things and lifestyle created by white people? Never. So fuck yourselves and your idea that you somehow own anything simply because someone from your cultural past might have done it first.

  • Tin Borgman

    It took 18 months to stumble over this article. I hope my appreciation of your thoughtful presentation is not taken as appropriation of your thought process.

  • Jacob Mathew

    Good work…unique site and interesting too… keep it up…looking forward for more updates. I was really impressed by your blog please keep on sharing such blog.

  • Danny Beatz

    Cultural appropriation has run rampant here in the U.S. for decades arguably even centuries. The most recent on is the appropriation of Black and Latino culture. Hip-hop and latin sub cultures. That is what the white America does best, adsorb other people’s cultures and spit it back out and claim innovation and ownership. Take Twerking, Rapping, they even appropriate other races bodies the “booty trend”, tanning, full lips which are something blacks and latinos naturally have and been praising for years…

    • Road Less Traveled

      Until you discuss either minorities or other cultures also appropriating, which is very demonstrable, then your argument is a double standard. For example, let’s look at the argument about let’s say jazz or blues. Virtually all of the instruments, chords progressions, and scales come from Europe. So why do Black people get to claim sole ownership over blues and jazz, if in reality these are new evolutions of the use of European instruments (guitar, piano, kit drums, bass, etc)? And if the chord progressions are found in Europe history, not African?

      • Bair

        But those chords etc were forced on black people when they were enslaved. Again, in the SJW universe, marginalized people don’t have any agency.


        So I was doing some more thinking, after reading this article and others.

        What if an Arab restaurant owner wants to hire a bellydancer to drum up business, but the only available dancers are white because Islamic girls are not permitted to bellydance by their families?

        What if a white girl lives alone in a remote white town and learns to bellydance on her own. Is that bad cultural appropriation? Should she *not* do it, out of principle? Is she stealing it by enjoying it in the privacy of her own home? What if a group of blonde Nordic girls get together in their remote Icelandic village and have a bellydancing/yoga/whatever group and no oppressed peoples are invited because there are none within 1000 miles?

        Is it ok for black people to bellydance?

        How about for a Vietnamese person to sell Indian food?
        For and Indian to play the blues?

        Is it *only* *ever* cultural appropration if the dominant culture borrows ideas from the oppressed culture (and I am sure that the Japanese and Chinese would love to learn that their cultures are oppressed. really). So non-dominant cultures can just borrow from one another, right? A white fashion designer can’t use Native American designs on their fashions, but a Nepalese designer can???

        A friend of mine is Chinese Canadian. She doesn’t care what Canadians or Americans or anyone does with ‘her’ culture. She doesn’t care if a white person sells noodles. In fact, she regards herself as a Canadian first and her ethnicity second. In fact, by reducing her to ‘this is your ethnicity and this your culture and the two go hand in hand’ actually separates her from the broader Canadian society. It points out how she is ‘other’. It’s meant to be ‘positive’ but it has the same effect. I always tell her that she is Canadian, and that her ethnicity doesn’t matter.

  • nemo

    Funny , without what these morons call “cultural appropriation , we wouls still be in the stone age…

  • Cam Bell

    This might possibly be the least amount of intelligence ever to have been conveyed in an essay.

  • Brandon Broze

    This article is mostly satire, right?? ;)

    esp. 1-5, w/ the possible exception of 2

  • purplehaze216 .

    this is satire right? right?

    I thought liberals proclaimed that the benefits of multiculturalism is a ‘fusion of culture’? other cultures borrow from us, but we’re not allowed to borrow from them?

    is a McDonalds in China offensive because the Chinese are physically ingesting American culture? no, that’s clearly ridiculous.

  • TeamEdwardJace

    So is the author saying at one point that casucian a can’t listen to rap? Telling someone they can’t listen to a certain kind of music is racist . It can occur from a member of another race expressing that or someone telling a person of their race not to listen to certain kind of music such as “because they’re black “

  • Roy Jones

    This is an interesting issue and one that’s worthy of a thoughtful presentation and serious discussion. Unfortunately, Sam Doloncot chose to take the low road, settling for sophomoric snarking instead of making a contribution to serious discourse.

  • Elise MacKenna

    Art is meant to be shared, not kept for those who are deemed worthy to express it simply because of the culture they were born into. This article has got to be the biggest piece of racist crap I have ever read. Just because you are Middle Eastern doesn’t mean that you are they only one who can join in on an art form. This isn’t just directed at white women either, you are also saying that Black women, Asian women, and anyone else who isn’t Arab can’t belly dance.

    You know what I would call you? Someone with a Racial Superiority Complex.

    Point Blank- RACIST.

  • vintagelady1

    Very funny article! You would have to be a loony, anal-retentive, pedantic nutcase to complain about this “cultural appropriation” b.s.

  • Amused Flaneuse

    Not to mention all those thoughtless non-Indians in your yoga class!

  • spiderbucket

    OMG. You just became my favorite writer on the internet. When I started reading this, I thought you were serious based on all the shit I’ve been reading on Salon and HuffPo and Gawker and Jezebel. Those pieces come across like something off of The Onion. Thank you for adding some sanity to this discussion.

  • Veronica

    This article made me think of my own ethnic background (Cuban), and how I grew up dancing salsa in my living room, with my family members. Salsa today is a flashy, highly technical and costumed art form, studied by white, pink and purple people, all around the world.

    Do I feel offended, or taken advantage of in any way? NO! Of course not. I’m delighted, amused and impressed, that my simple, home-style dance has ended up on the world stage — and heeey, it’s been “sassy-fied” in quite a bit!

    So, yes, right on Sam Doloncot, for rising above Randa’s anger, and making the obvious point of: enjoy what you like, as you like it! Celebrating our unique interpretations of art — with respectful nods towards their origins — is 100% OK peeps. And fun!

  • joules48084

    Having seen Randa Jarrar’s picture, which displays an obese woman with
    apparent body-image problems, I would offer that her criticisms of
    belly-dancing ring a little hollow!

  • Creepy B


  • Katie

    What is a white German Jew/Scottish girl from a Mormon family allowed to do? I would hate to offend anyone. I really need warning labels on the history of everything I buy, and every activity I join in. She lumped all white people together, but we are diverse. When I took belly dancing, I didn’t put on fancy costumes, we just danced in comfortable clothing. Is that okay? She didn’t leave instructions!!!

  • Mellilah Bellydance

    Randa Jarrar seems to refer to the practices of Egyptian people in her article, so I will focus on the dances of Egypt. Most people use the term “belly dance” generically, lumping everything that we do, folkloric to cabaret style, together for the sake of a universal word. In Egypt they seem to label each style more accurately, raqs sharki, beledi, etc… Beledi, the home style of Egyptian dance, is a social dance, danced at home or at celebrations, but it can also be “performed,” usually in a long robe, galabaya, as often seen in videos of Fifi Abdo, as Randa Jarrar points out. On the other hand, “raqs sharki” or the cabaret style of belly dance is a performance art, meant for the stage. Belly dancers perform both. Randa Jarrar seems to be confused and lumps the two together. So, I’d like to shed more light on the history of the cabaret style, or raqs sharki, “Oriental,” as I think it’s relevant here. Badia Masabi from Syria, the forerunner of belly dance as we know it, opened the first nightclub in Cairo in the early 1930s. Having studied dance in the US, and with the goal of creating a show for mostly foreigners, (most likely predominantly male), she intentionally fused the dance, creating movements to fill a stage, and incorporating elements of other dance forms… a fusion of Awalam, (the original performing artists of Egypt) and Hollywood. She trained and hired the very first belly dance legends of Cairo, with Tahia Karioca (one of Randa Jarrar’s favorites) being a direct descendent. Therefore, this marks a key period of belly dance history, in which one could argue that the cabaret style of belly dance or “raqs sharki,” performed on a stage with a sparkly costume, began, and it began as a fusion dance form. Therefore, “raqs sharki” was never a pure “Arabic” tradition or dance style isolated from the rest of the world but a fusion dance with elements of many cultures, much like most art forms. Furthermore, native Egyptian, Mahmoud Reda, the pioneer of Egyptian folkloric dance for the stage, used elements of ballet as well as other dance forms in his choreographies. He even augmented the dress used by the various indigenous people, to create a flashier “stage-worthy” version. Many of the Egyptian folkloric dances that are performed around the globe today are performed in this style.
    As my colleague Suzanna pointed out, “Being of a particular culture does not innately qualify you to be the authority of artistic traditions originating from that culture.” Randa Jarrar needs to do a bit of research before taking pen to paper again.

  • Pinkamena Diane Pie

    Quick reminder: The righty idiots who read this think you’re one of them. Just remember that next time you get a wild hair up your ass to post one of these damned articles.

  • Ian Sean

    Thanks, I needed this. I was going to rage in her comments, but now I can laugh here instead!

    I suspect she had an agenda. Bellydancing is the *most flattering exercise a woman can do, after all. Can’t blame her for wanting to keep the goods to her own folks…but you can discredit her for trying to do so in such an indirect way.

    *If you don’t believe me, ladies, take a before shot and a couple months of weekly classes with 5 hours of practice per week, then take an after shot and tell me I’m wrong.

    • Oarboar

      Couple of things: Of course she had an agenda. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. When you write an opinion piece, you’re trying to convince people of your point of view, and that’s how a free society works. She just did a remarkably bad job of it and managed to unite like 97 percent of commenters — liberals, conservatives, and moderates alike — into essentially saying “You know, that’s really, really stupid.” When your argument is “I think it’s icky,” good luck with that. With some creative editing, it could have been turned into a screed against same-sex marriage.

      Second: Five hours of pretty much any exercise per week will show quite an improvement for anyone. I would think belly dancing works the core muscles pretty well, though.

      Now you’ve reminded me of the NPR article on people complaining about yoga in the United States not staying true to its Indian roots. The hullabaloo some people raised about that makes me think of paraphrasing a line from Insane Clown Posse: “!@#$ing free society — how does it work?”

      She’s perfectly free to not like it as she wishes. Good luck with convincing people to drop it because she doesn’t like it. I hope she lets us know how that works out for her.

  • IrishGrrrl

    A nightmare: an Irish Catholic named Ezekiel after seeing an off-Broadway showing of “Le Cage Aux Folles” goes to dinner at a Jade Palace restaurant. While perusing the buffet and listening to 50 Cent on his Ipod he fails to notice an errant dumpling on the floor and slips on it injuring himself. After a trip to the hospital he’s given a wheel chair because he has a hip fracture. Eeeek, the sky is falling!!!! is why Liberals can’t have nice things.

  • RepackRider

    I’m a white guy who plays Black music, i.e. The Blues.

    I know a Black musician who plays white guy music, i.e. Beethoven.

    Go figure.

    • Laila

      Argh! But that’s not the point of her article! You can play “Black” music as a white person, but I hope you aren’t dressing up like some demeaning black stereotype while doing it. (Same with the ethnic food argument . . . I’m pretty sure I can eat food from another culture without being racist but I don’t stick a sombrero on my head every time I go to Taco Bell.)

      • CHrollCHum

        No, but if you were doing a Mexican hat dance, you’d probably involve the sombrero. White ballroom dancers probably also need to lose the flamenco skirts, amirite. No. This entire thing is asinine. She’s a mega troll who lands the occasional bit of publication.

      • Sthina Sarojini

        Jarrar explicitly states in her article that even if it is done with respect and knowledge of culture, she still doesn’t like it. So, the black music metaphor IS a fair comparison.

        • Road Less Traveled

          It doesn’t matter if she doesn’t like it. She doesn’t get to speak for an entire culture. Also, basically virtually every culture has appropriated hordes of cultural artifacts from other cultures. It’s deeply embedded in cultural syncretism and evolution. Basically zero cultures can claim they didn’t utilize and appropriate something, including her own! Anything else is ignorance.

  • OfficialPro

    what’s really dumb is the Critical Race Theory Application by Randa Jarrar. Meaning, of course, that Only Whitey Can Culturally Appropriate, Because Only Whitey Has Power Because Whitey Is In the Majority. Which is nonsensical for about a dozen reasons, not the least of which, in South Africa Whitey was most certainly NOT “the Majority” and yet somehow managed to be IN POWER. And we all know what they did with that power.

    Critical Race theory, the brainchild of clinically insane deceased person Derrick Bell, among others, is a Marxist, Communist, subversive Alinskyist theory that seeks to redefine words unilaterally and without benefit of dictionary, in order to unfairly wrest control of the debate. Like going ahead and redefining “racism” to include “power” in order to absolve anyone who isn’t white of the charge of racism if they behave in a bigoted manner, and to justify bigoted behavior of nonwhites towards whites (or even other different nonwhites).

    Appropriation isn’t even a thing, it is a phantom conjured from the ether to pile on “White Guilt” and give idiot university moon children another insignificant, asinine “crisis” to rage at. Neither is the concept covered by the term “appropriation” in any way shape or form immoral. Isn’t Liberalism all about NOT imposing their morality on others? Yet this is exactly what they are doing!

    This is what happens when you let the Cult of Feelings reign supreme for decades. You get a generation of idiots who thinks that hurting someone’s delicate fee-fees by complete freak accident by something that NO NORMAL PERSON (ie not-insane, and not having taken these moonbatty “-studies” classes) would even THINK about is the worst crime ever, worse than murder.

  • Annie Towne

    Randa Jarrar was born in the US to an American mother and a Palestinian father, and was entirely American educated. She lives in Texas, and seems to be doing very well in the “white world”. Her argument regarding belly dancing is ridiculous for many reasons, but mostly because it is through the arts that multi-culturalism is best explored and expressed. Imaging if we ruled out any but Russian-descended ballet dancers? In fact, for a long time, we pretty much did, and it was a pretty big deal when those barriers broke down. Since when are we aiming for a world in which each individual’s stake in it is fought over in this way? Karate and other Far Eastern martial arts have been practised all over the world for decades now; Capoeria no longer lives only in Brazil; “Western” art forms such as oil painting and stone sculpture and classical piano are now practised all over the planet. Should Yo-Yo Ma have to give up the cello and pick up an erhu? Does the fact that he was born in Paris alter what instruments he “should” play?

    And because she’s only “half-Palestinian”, by her own argument, how much authority does she get on this whole cultural appropriation issue? Perhaps she only belly dances with one half of her body? It’s absurd. The fact that virtually no one agrees with her is, one hopes, making her think twice about what she’s written. While I agree that white privilege is a big problem in the world (I am of Cherokee descent and come up against it all the time), the arts is the one place where laying all of that down seems most appropriate and positive.

    • OfficialPro

      Poor Randa has fallen prey to the Identity Politics and Critical Race Theory idiocy she was no doubt indoctrinated into via some literal Nutty Professor in University.

    • Razib_Taif1

      As a Cherokee don’t you just hate it when white people play lacrosse? I bet they do it just to mock native culture!

      • Joaquin Canay

        I never played lacrosse but i would love to learn… I am “white” for US standards but I hate the definition as I am 100% latino born and raised in South America. We drink Mate and play Pato and dance tango and i would love to share it with the world. Why to keep such important games, traditions and cultural heritages to ourself and not to share it with the world? Of course, it should always be done with respect but as long as they are practice in a respectful manner, I am up for sharing and learning to/from other cultures… Just my humble opinion…

        • Marina Doshkevich

          You are a spick. so don’t worry, amigo. Most people would not consider you white.

    • Road Less Traveled

      Your Yo-yo Ma example perfectly demonstrates the double-standard, which pisses me off.

      With absolute certitude including personal experience, I can say that the very first people to call out whites “appropriating” cultural artifacts (music, clothing, spirituality, lingo) from other cultures will be the very ones who would never ever call out someone like Yo-Yo Ma for appropriating cello music from Europe.

      This is why social justice has gone off the deep end.

      Wait, what, a white person is rapping and selling a lot of records? Someone I knew wrote online “Still, Maclamore is just an appropriator,” as if this was a final judgement. Meanwhile, if I was to express real disgust at Yo-Yo Ma’s skill and success with cello, including the appropriation of a European tradition, people would invariably consider me some kind of regressive or even racist.

      The double-standards are insane.

      • Bair

        Its because, whites are “punching down” when they appropriate from other culture, whereas non-whites are “punching up”

        Appropriation is *only* wrong when it goes from the dominated culture to the dominator, because the dominant culture is racist/sexist/colonialist etc.

        • Road Less Traveled

          But most people’s discussions of such are ridiculously overly simplistic, and non-nuanced.

          I disagree also that it’s *always* wrong for white people to use something from another culture and disagree wholeheartedly that *all* people of color’s use of European or White cultural artifacts is excused, simply because a bunch of Europeans engaged in colonialism, slavery, or racism in the past.

          I find it actually a very myopic and overly generalized discussion.

          Plus, there isn’t anything scientific or proven about what you are saying. Social justice warriors pronounce absolute dogmas like you just stated, as if it’s some kind of verifiable, all encompassing truth. Perhaps have some humility.

          • Bair

            I agree with you actually.

        • Road Less Traveled

          Also good luck actually enforcing this. The anthropological history of humans is awash with cultural exchange, syncretism, borrowing, and stealing, by virtually ALL cultures, something that SJW’s refuse to acknowledge, which would militate against the idea of them being truly well educated historically.

          Also, I hope that you realize that there are countless other groups than white people that have oppressed other groups. Any body who has a strong understanding of global history knows that.

          • Bair

            Apparently that does not count, because according to the SJW, only whites can be imperialist etc

            It infantilizes non-white cultures and denies them agency.

          • Road Less Traveled

            I agree with you. Sorry for projecting on to you. Yes, ironically many SJWs consistently infantilize people of color.

            By trying to whitewash all non-white history as being perfect, the so called “edenic myth,” and by saying we can’t criticize any negative actions taken by non-white cultures, such as noting when they were oppressive, it infantalizes them. Real respect means I can hold accountable and call out people of color or other cultures when they are wrong, not have a plastic smile on my face at all times.

            This concept that only white people can be oppressive, racist, imperialistic, etc, actually is racially problematic. It essentializes white and non-white people in to two monolithic, binary groups. Real equality is that all peoples are capable of the whole range of human actions and experiences, good and bad.

          • Bair


            And conflating race/culture is actually racist.

            I mean, don’t white supremacist types use ‘black culture’ as a dogwhistle?

            And yes, it also lumps all ‘ethnic’ people into one category. It treats them as homogenous.

            We are told that we must accept, uncritically, the opinions of a marginalized person regarding cultural appropriation etc. Ok, well what if one marginalized person says that they are being oppressed because white people do yoga and another disagrees? Who is right? And regarding an opinion as automatically ‘correct’ just because an ostensibly oppressed person says it is really really wrong. Treating ideas as sacrosanct because of the color of someone’s skin or their genitals is wrongheaded. Yes, it does infantilize them. We apply critical thinking and skepticism to the ideas of white people, and to say that it’s off limits in regards to marginalized folks is just another form of racism. It doesn’t hold them to the same standards. It is just the bigotry of low expectations.

            Have you heard about what happened at Goldsmiths College in the UK? Islamists tried to silence apostate muslims Ms.Namazie from speaking because they wanted college to be a ‘safe space’. And the feminist and student LGBT groups AGREED with them?

            Oh, and there is a nice double standard to this as well. The ISOC student group has the right to bring in a guest speaker who advocates beheading apostates such as Ms.Namazie. Yet Ms.Namazie could not speak, according to them, because her disagreement makes them feel unsafe.

            Get real.

          • Road Less Traveled

            Right, I’ve noticed what you are mentioning about automatic acceptance of an opinion stated by a person of color, especially if on the topic of social justice. It’s as if the moment a person of color uses an SJW trigger word, then all of a sudden their own subjective “lived experience” becomes Truth writ large, not just for them individually but everywhere.

            I agree that not being able to criticize the ideas of a POC is a form of subtle racism. If we really think they are equal, then they are capable and agentic enough to be held to a high standard. I personally believe this.

            And it doesn’t matter if a white person in a specific incident actually has quality critiques of that opinion, or is very well educated on the topic at hand. They can’t say so without “whitesplaining” and violating the “safe space” of the person of color.

            Note that I am not saying this is all applicable to all conversations nor to all people of color. I have lots of friends in the social justice community who don’t treat me like that.

            Also, some of the most excessive SJWs I’ve known are white ones.

  • Riggsveda

    You folks know we all descend from the same ~600 humans that fled to what is now southern africa in the prehistory of our species, right?

    • IrishGrrrl

      People who understand science get that, the rest, not so much.

      • Aaron Litz

        “Race” is a social construction and has nothing to do with science. Local populations develop similar traits, but these are just minor variations in humanity as a whole; isolated populations in a small area start to look alike. The traits shift and blend as the populations move and change.

        It IS good to understand science! :)

  • Doug Gordon

    Yeah, well, you clearly missed the point, pal.

    • Serai 1

      No, he got the point. He just recognizes it’s ridiculous.

    • disqus_MHw7a2dXsU

      What was the point that was “clearly missed”?

  • Peter James

    >>>>>”Arab women are not vessels for white women to pour themselves and lose themselves in; we are not bangles or eyeliner or tiny bells on hips. We are human beings. This dance form is originally ours, and does not exist so that white women can have a better sense of community; can gain a deeper sense of sisterhood with each other; can reclaim their bodies; can celebrate their sexualities; can perform for the female gaze. ”


    …are you really that new to this whole “being a minority in a white world” thing?”

    – Blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Asians, Polynesians, …..

    • OfficialPro

      This lady ought be told that Culture is in the Public domain, nobody has a monopoly on it, and she are making an arse of herself.

  • Oarboar

    It’s heartening to know us white guys don’t have a monopoly on spouting stupid bullshit.

    • Pamela

      …or RACIST BS.

      • OfficialPro

        yes, but only the cultural appropriators known as The Children Of Alinsky who worship Critical Race Theory have a monopoly (in their own minds) on being justified in “bigoted” (racist) behavior and then have the gall to weasel word their way into insisting it isn’t racist at all because see look we changed the definition of racism on you hahaha

        • Brandon Broze

          …wouldn’t the “children of alinsky” BE the SJWs complaining about alleged appropriation, NOT the “appropriators”?

  • Pamela

    Prove to us, Arabs did not steal the art of belly dancing from some ancient white culture. You can’t. You weren’t around thousands of years ago. I am not saying they did, but we just don’t know.

    • Peter James

      >>>>”Just like we constantly hear, that Native American Indians were the original inhabitants of North America. We have no clue, what group of people, race of people, the Native American Indians might have slaughtered, to claim as theirs”

      Actually we do.
      It’s called Anthropological Archaeology, where we study the evolution, development, and migration patterns of humans, and human societies since the dawn of man with all manner of real forensic and scientifically verifiable evidence.

      It’s a professional field of study, and one which tells us that pretty much everything else you’ve spouted there is utter nonsense and garbage.

      • OfficialPro

        Yeah but any Historian, Archaeologist, hell Paleontologist, knows that not everything in history is preserved.

    • Serai 1

      Um, we do know how the Native population of America got here, because we have this thing called “science”, and within that thing, there’s another thing called “anthropology”. Human beings originated in Africa and spread out from there. The ancestors of the Native Americans did not slaughter anyone when they first got here, because there WASN’T a human population here when they arrived. They were the first ones here. That was many thousands of years ago. You do realize that somebody had to be first, right?

      • OfficialPro

        Explain Kennewick man, then.

    • Aaron Litz

      The original inhabitants of North America where the Yig-worshiping Serpent People. The original inhabitants of Earth were a conical, tentacled species of land-dwelling sponge-like invertebrates in Australia. Our entire species is an interloper on this planet. We all “appropriated” this entire world.

      It’s true, I have proof (just don’t look too closely at the authorship.)

      • David L.

        Ka nama kaa lajerama!

        • Aaron Litz

          Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn

    • CruisingTroll

      They stole it from the Cimmerians. EVERYTHING good that has come out of Africa and the Middle East was stolen from the Cimmerians.

      It’s true, by Crom!

      • Aaron Litz

        I see that you rely on the same sources I do.

    • freeinaz

      I used to get really upset when I’d have to take those eye tests and was told I was color blind. Doesn’t seem too bad of a deal right now however.

      • OfficialPro

        Oh don’t get me started on the idiotic response by the Critical Race Theory trolls to a person saying they’re color-blind. “What, you don’t see my color? You think my color is bad so you pretend it’s not there? RACIST!” Truly the ravings of people who need serious medical intervention, or they just need to stop doing recreational drugs.

        • freeinaz

          Your right you should put the pipe down it’s really clouding your abilities and judgements.

        • feloniousgrammar

          ZOMG!!1!1! Some people of color get upset when white people pretend that white supremacy is not and never was the rule in the U.S.!!! White people who declare that they are so “colorblind” that they can’t see what is happening to people of color right now are so put upon. Poor things! What next— bitching about Stand Your Ground laws and Stop and Frisk!

          Guffaw! Listen to these nutterz:

          Critical race theory (CRT) is an academic discipline focused upon the application of critical theory, a critical examination of society and culture, to the intersection of race,law, and power. According to the UCLA School of Public Affairs:

          CRT recognizes that racism is engrained in the fabric and system of the American society. The individual racist need not exist to note that institutional racism is pervasive in the dominant culture. This is the analytical lens that CRT uses in examining existing power structures. CRT identifies that these power structures are based on white privilege and white supremacy, which perpetuates the marginalization of people of color.

          Legal scholar Roy L. Brooks has defined CRT as “a collection of critical stances against the existing legal order from a race-based point of view,” and says

          it focuses on the various ways in which the received tradition in law adversely affects people of color not as individuals but as a group. Thus, CRT attempts to analyze law and legal traditions through the history, contemporary experiences, and racial sensibilities of racial minorities in this country. The question always lurking in the background of CRT is this: What would the legal landscape look like today if people of color were the decision-makers?

          Can you believe these people? They actually think that racism has something to do with society writ large and the LAW (of all things. Really!).

          They’re the REAL RACISTS— bringing up racism and all when whites are too good to notice it and don’t want to hear about it.

    • OfficialPro

      actually, we do have proof of whitey in before Indians. *coughcoughkennewickmancoughcough*

      The hilarious part is the seattle-area tribes wanted to claim the remains and have them buried for their alleged dignity (and the insane;y illogical belief among the natives that somehow a person’s eternal destination is determined by how an outside force not of the person’s own control treats the person’s remains!)

      • IrishGrrrl

        I have to take issue with your characterization of Native American burial beliefs. I may not agree with their beliefs, but I don’t disrespect them for it. Personally I think religion is silly but I don’t think it’s “insane” for human beings to make up such beliefs. Indeed, recent science indicates that our brains are “hard wired” to come up with religious explanations for things. In any case, until someone does a definitive DNA study comparing Native Americans to Kennewick Man, we don’t really know if they are their ancestors or not.

  • Pamela

    82% to 85% of all dead & wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan, are “white” boys, who only make up approximately 35% of the U.S. population. Yet, 85% of all Illegal & Legal immigration, into our country are non-white. This is the “white privilege” the RACISTS keep talking about. White men, get to do most of the fighting, bleed and dying, but “people of color”, think they have a right to it. The U.S.

    I guess this Racist attitude towards white people, started with Anthony Johnson (google), America’s 1st real slave owner. Anthony Johnson was a free BLACK MAN, who owned a black indentured servant. Well, when his black indentured servant’ time was up, to be freed from his servitude, he went to work for a white farmer.

    Racist black Anthony Johnson freaked out. How dare a white man, have any privilege I don’t have. So, he took the white man to court, to get what the white man had. That would be a free black man, that the courts ruled black freeman Anthony Johnson could own for life. Yep, the black man won in court, and became the 1st official slave owner in the United States of America.

    Majority white men, have, and still are doing the majority of the fighting, bleeding and dying to get this U.S., & to maintain it, but Arabs, Chinese, Mexicans, Africans, and all Racist non-white people, feel they have a right, to something they did not create. This United States of America.

    Just because, the Arabs, have been belly dancing for Thousands of years, doesn’t mean they own it, or created it. We have no clue, who they stole the art from.

    • j hentai

      sorry, but i think you completely missed the point. also, you may be more comfortable over at fox or the blaze.

      • Pamela

        I feel, totally at ease, here.

        • Annie Towne

          Please, learn, how, to use, commas. Thank, you.

        • freeinaz

          As you should. The word or term racist has been overused and abused for the last 5 years it really has no meaning left to it, unless your talking about Harry Reid.

    • Serai 1

      Oh, I see. You’re a right-wing racist. That explains it.

      • disqus_MHw7a2dXsU

        Why would you say this obviously untrue slander? And why would you impute racism to the right, when it is, as it has always been, the left and the democrats who are the party of racism. Lest you forget slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, and the destruction of the black community and family are all due to the policies put forth by the left and democrats. Planned Parenthood was started with the explicit purpose of killing black children in the womb, with the founder, Margaret Sanger saying “Colored people are like human weeds and are to be exterminated.”

        And don’t forget that it was republicans who drafted and lobbied for two decades to pass civil rights act, which finally passed in 1964. The democrats finally voted in favor of it for cynical political purposes with LBJ saying “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.”

        I especially love the lie that lefties like to tell themselves that Dixiecrats all became republicans, which is very false. Hill and Sparkman of Alabama, Fulbright and McClellan of Arkansas, Holland and Smathers of Florida, Russell and Talmadge of Georgia, Ellender and Long of Louisiana, Eastland and Stennis of Mississippi, Ervin and Jordan of North Carolina, Johnston and Thurmond of South Carolina, Gore Sr ad Walters of Tennessee, H. Byrd and Robertson of Virginia, and R. Byrd of West Virginia made up the Dixiecrats. Only one, Thurmond, became a republican. The rest remained democrats, with Byrd being that last member of the KKK to serve in the senate and lionized by modern democrats despite being an odious person.

        I’ll tell you why you would tell an obvious untruth like you spoke: projection. You absolutely need to blame other people for your sins because your sins are quite frankly despicable.

        • Oarboar

          “And why would you impute racism to the right, when it is, as it has
          always been, the left and the democrats who are the party of racism.”

          LOL. I guess you haven’t been on any comment threads regarding the Trayvon Martin or Jordan Davis murders. It’s amazing how you conservatives seem to think that everyone else is as stupid as you and how we don’t know about the Southern Strategy the GOP has been pursuing since the days of Nixon. Keep banging your head against that wall, though. It tells us you don’t have anything.

    • JonathanMaddox

      I think you’ll find the vast majority of dead and wounded in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are Iraqis and Afghans. But “we don’t do body counts”.

    • IrishGrrrl

      white” boys, who only make up approximately 35% of the U.S. population

      Hunh! Where are you getting your stats, your butt? Or were you being sarcastic? According to the most recent Census data, 77.9% of the US population is white. The majority of Hispanics are “white” but separated out in Census data as “white, Hispanic” but you can take them out of that number and you’d still have over 60% of the population being “White, Non-Hispanic”. As for how many “white boys” died in our wars….I don’t give a flying fart about their race. They served their country and deserve recognition regardless of the color of their skin. And you’re conveniently ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and Afghani who died because of our imperialistic behavior. And finally, did you know that as of 2009, there were 114,601 foreign-born individuals serving in our military and 12% of them were not U.S. Citizens. So many non-citizens and naturalized citizens have fought and died for this country–many of them are black or white hispanic–that’s it’s absurd to say that the white boys make all the sacrifices. Without immigrant participation in the military you can bet your ass we would have had to have a draft in order to get enough men to fight the last two wars. All those white boys who got to stay home as a result should be on their knees thanking those immigrant soldiers.

      • disqus_MHw7a2dXsU

        Just so you know that 77% includes men and women, so by your own stats white men make up only 38.5%, roughly the number Pamela put forth, and non-Hispanic white men only make up 30% of the population.

        Not so good at the math are you?

        • IrishGrrrl

          You know what I’m not as good at as you and Pamela? Prejudice. When she wrote “white boys”, I saw “white people” because I know, and apparently she doesn’t, that women make up 14.5% of the active military. Over the last few decades their numbers have quadrupled while the overall number of active duty personnel has dropped by over 700,000. To add to that, minorities account for a considerably larger percentage of military women than of military men (38 percent vs. 28 percent).
          Minority representation is even larger among enlisted women (41 percent).

          Now before you go down the road of “women haven’t served in combat” let me disabuse you of that notion. The military police are supposed to be combat support positions. Women have been serving in the MP’s since 1941 and now make up 25% of that force. That’s a much higher rate than the rest of the military positions. In the invasion of Grenada in 1983 and Panama in 1989, neither of which was a “war” but combat sure as hell occurred, the MP’s were on the front lines. Don’t believe me–look it up. I know this not from just history but from men who served in the MP’s during both operations. Oh, and did I mention the role that female MP’s played in Iraq and Afghanistan? How they were crucial in questioning Muslim women? You know that troops would storm into the Muslim houses in the middle of the night and the danger factor was incredibly high, right? You know those women were right there in the thick of it right? And I’m not even going into what women have done in support positions that ended up being in the front lines in previous wars. For crying out loud, I qualify as a Daughter of the American Revolution not only because one of my male ancestors fought for the colonies but when he died, his wife picked up his gun and took his position in the battle. So don’t get all up in my shit because you and Pamela can’t seem to see anyone else besides “white boys” fighting and dying for their country.

          Silly, silly me. I forgot that “white boys” are the only ones that matter in your messed up hate filled minds. My math isn’t the problem. Your bigotry and misogyny is. And on behalf of all the veterans of any color and gender out there, fuck you.

          • disqus_MHw7a2dXsU

            When she wrote “white boys”, I saw “white people”

            So you’re just bad a reading. Got it.

            I know, and apparently she doesn’t, that women make up 14.5% of the active military

            So? Any idea how many women have died in Iraq? Less than 150, a whopping 3%, most of whom died in IED during transport or in plane crashes, i.e., not combat. The number of women who’ve died in combat is statistically 0. In other words, “women being in the military” does not mean “women fighting for our country”. It doesn’t even mean “women deployed in combat zones”. You’ll find women make are crazily under represented (less than your prized 14.5%) in those places, and very much over represented in rear echelon places. Spare me your ridiculous notions of what women do in the military. I’ve spent my entire adult life in and around military. The people who die in combat zones are almost exclusively men.

            I forgot that “white boys” are the only ones that matter in your messed up hate filled minds

            This is in fact false. Pamela merely pointed to the cold hard statistics that white men are over represented in military deaths, as very over represented in combat deaths. You in your racist anti-white hate filled mind want to do everything to trivialize this fact in order to preserve your sad narrative that white men are oppressors. This is why you insist that bringing up actual statistics represents “hate filled minds”. Your base racism makes you twist or outright ignore those statistics that show clearly that white men bear the brunt of the savagery of war.

            Your misandry and bigotry are the problem. You put on display the very same disgusting racism and sexism that the racist and sexist Randa Jarrar displays.

            And on behalf of all the veterans of any color and gender out there, fuck you.

            It’s nice to know that not only does your twisted mind make you believe your obvious racism and sexism is somehow noble, but you sadly believe that you speak for all veterans of all colors and both sexes. I can assure you that you do not. You are simply a sad little being trying desperately to denigrate whites who fight proudly and honorably. But that’s what bigots do: belittle the other, in this case “the other” for you are white men, who you dishonor by deigning to trivialize then arrogantly claim to speak for.

            Simply pathetic.

          • mrbrink

            Slow clap, slow clap. White men aren’t doing all the fighting and dying, but how long did it take white men oppressing women and minorities in the military to get to a point where you think you’re special? You’ve had had huge head start, but yeah, you win the death race. You’re a winner.

          • disqus_MHw7a2dXsU

            White men aren’t oppressing women, nor minorities in the military. I understand, though, that bigots like you need to believe this in order to maintain your self worth. When confronted with the above statistics, your knee-jerk reaction is “OPPRESSION!!”. But it’s a weird kind of oppression, isn’t it, that white men perpetrate, since white men are over represented in all military deaths throughout the entire history of the US.

            But, please, keep your head in the sand and stay ignorant, my friend.

          • mrbrink

            You’re “winning” a rigged game.

          • feloniousgrammar

            Yeah, it’s real sad that their white leaders sent them to war. You want someone to rub your white belly so you’ll feel better?

          • IrishGrrrl

            OFFS, in EVERY country in the world, the majority race of a country tends to make up the majority of the army and therefore will make up the majority of combat deaths. It’s simple fucking math, not discrimination.

          • disqus_MHw7a2dXsU

            You’re right. It is simple math. Only 64% of enlisted are white and 77% of officers are white, but 85% of military deaths are white (and male). If the same imbalance existed for any other demographic, you and all the other innumerates would be claiming oppression. But it’s white men who are over represented in military deaths, so it’s not a big deal. In fact, for people like you, this is probably a good thing. White men are just evil oppressors, amaright?

            The double standard you, and all the other bigots, use is evident everywhere. This is merely more evidence.

          • IrishGrrrl

            So, we’re back to where we started from. You argued that Pamela was right that “white boys” make all the contributions. I disproved this with a ton of facts so don’t even bother pushing that KKK talking point here. Your larger point was that white men are over represented in military death statistics. I did not dispute that but I explained that’s exactly what one would expect since since white people make up the majority of the U.S. population and since women were not allowed to be in “combat positions” in the past.

            I did not address the fact that there could be other very normal explanations for why white men are over represented.

            1. The military does not like to accept anyone that doesn’t have a high school degree and even if they do, they must still obtain a GED in a certain amount of time. Minorities are much less likely to have graduated from high school. Minorities are also much less likely to obtain college degrees, helping to explain the greater numbers of white men as officers.

            2. Subcultures in our country view service in the military differently. Among whites, it is an honorable profession. Some minority and socioeconomic groups don’t, so you’d have less willingness to join. I’m sure this is a small subgroup because as I pointed out with many stats, minorities do participate in the military and are doing so in increased numbers every year.

            3. White men have had a head start historically speaking. The U.S. military has not welcomed minorities for most of it’s history. Those that did join were put into separate and supposedly equal units (which we know historically is bullshit). Integration was not pushed on the military until 1948. After that the process was still pretty slow. Women, as I mentioned before, were also not encouraged or welcomed. They’ve obviously made inroads quickly but women have been integrated into the military at an even slower pace than minorities. They were only granted the ability to try for combat positions within the last year.

            4. The entire military system is geared toward promoting white men up the ranks over women and minorities. This is systemic racism, which you are actually accusing me of promoting (and I’ll address that in a moment). The military itself admits this and it’s why they’ve been trying to educate and improve integration over the years. The management is trying their best to make it better.

            5. This country is controlled by white men (if you want to argue this, you are so delusional there is no point in even continuing this conversation). Those men decide when we go to war and they are the ones that sell it to the populace as being in our country’s interest even when it isn’t. Who is more likely to buy the bullshit they spew (Iraq anyone?)–white men or women and minorities who have been getting shafted by that same power structure for the last 200+ years?

            6. During my military training I was taught that you should always target officers first. I’m sure our enemies do the same thing–in fact I was told they will do the same thing. That being the case, if the officers are more likely to be white and they’re being targeted first, wouldn’t that mean they are more likely to be a casualty than enlisted personnel, where minorities are likely to occupy more positions?

            I could go on and on….That’s just a few things that could easily account for the differences in casualty rates we see for the various racial populations, enlisted, officers and casualties, etc. And until you can disprove all these theories and about a dozen more that aren’t mentioned here, you can’t prove causality between the statement that “more white men die in combat” and the statement that “this means white men are being discriminated against”. Which takes care of your ridiculous argument that I’m a racist and support systemic racism because I don’t agree with you. I simply believe in logic and the scientific method–neither of which are you using.

            But it’s white men who are over represented in military deaths, so it’s not a big deal. In fact, for people like you, this is probably a good thing. White men are just evil oppressors, amaright?

            If I had my druthers no one of any color would die in war, but that’s a pipe dream. So, no, it’s never a good thing when anyone is killed in an untimely and violent manner. Since I can’t stop war in general, I do try to stop unnecessary wars and unjust wars. Iraq was just such a war. During the run up to the Iraq Invasion, I had a feeling that Bush was lying and that there wasn’t enough proof of WMD. I told everybody who would listen. Unfortunately, they believed what he and his propaganda machine said. If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at those white old rich men in Congress and the previous administration.

            As for “white men are just evil oppressors”, I never said that. I’ve said it time and time again, I support and applaud the sacrifice of ALL of our soldiers of any race, gender or creed. Find one statement where I said otherwise–you can’t. Furthermore, the oppression against minorities and women is systemic. Every western culture for the last 2,000+ years has been patriarchal. It’s a very deep seated legacy. In the U.S. most of the overt means of oppression have been weeded out (not all, of course) via legal measures and due to the natural evolution in societal thinking. However, the more subtle ones, the ones that are very difficult for people to see (even the ones being oppressed sometimes don’t recognize it until after the fact) continue unabated. As a result the majority of oppressors are unwitting participants–they simply act as they were raised to act and until someone can point out to them how their behavior has caused harm to a woman or a minority, they usually don’t pick up on it themselves. I believe in educating white men to see those behaviors and patterns to which they’ve been raised to be blind. Nevertheless, the truth is that the window to educate white men is slowly shrinking because demographics are changing so rapidly now. They will just have to adjust to not having all the power. Am I happy that white men won’t have all the power? Yes, because they’ve made a mess of this country so far. Do I want them to die? No.

            You’ve decided that you’re a victim and you’re working backwards to find stuff that fits that narrative like this point about higher deaths of white men in the military. Did you hear this talking point on Fox news or right wing radio? Read it in a Pat Buchanan book or over at The Blaze? Wherever you heard it, they’re telling you what you want to hear and not what you need to. Suck it up buttercup, because it’s not going to get any easier for you with an attitude like that.

          • IrishGrrrl

            LOL You are conveniently ignoring the fact that Pamela’s mention of white boys was part of a larger rant about a black slave owner, which had nothing whatsoever to do with this satirical article. Her focus on “white boys” in that context reveals her prejudice. As if one black slave owner makes up for the tens of thousands of white slave owners who perpetuated the practice until they owned millions of black slaves. Conservatives, and particularly bigots, always try to use an exception to prove a rule. It’s like saying well I have proof that one woman falsely accused a man of rape therefore all female accusers must be lying and we should focus on the one liar and never deal with the millions of rapes that actually did occur and were truthfully reported.

            Furthermore, I never denied that white men make up the majority of combat deaths. Since white people make up the largest racial group in the U.S. that makes perfect sense. If purple people made up the majority, then they would make up the majority of deaths in combat. Their color is irrelevant. Her point, which you are simply repeating, is a classic conservative argument. You and she seem to be under the illusion that recognizing that white boys aren’t the only ones who contribute to this country is evidence of misandry and reverse racism. Nothing could be further from the truth. Nothing that I said denigrates or trivializes what white people, particularly men, have done in service to our country but it does support the fact that they’re not the only ones contributing. That’s the problem with you white conservatives…if someone is not giving you all the attention, all the praise and all the rewards you THINK you deserve, you start whining about “reverse racism”. I’m not going to let anyone say such incredibly stupid and misleading things on one of my favorite websites without countering it with facts and logic. Logic clearly isn’t your strong suit.

            Saying that I am doing the same thing that Randa Jarrar was doing is laughable. She wrote an incredibly stupid article about a non-problem. I made it pretty clear in my other comments that I don’t agree with her. And my response to Pamela’s racist comment was to point out how narrow her viewpoint is and ultimately how irrelevant it was. I fail to see any parallels between what I was saying and what Jarrar was saying.

            And you know absolutely nothing about my experience in the military, my family’s history and contribution to this country, or how I actually feel about men in general. So call me all the names you want….what I said stands on its own. My statements do not indicate misandry or bigotry…you want to feel like a victim of reverse racism for some reason instead of recognizing the reality of what white privilege really is. Now THAT is truly pathetic.

          • IrishGrrrl

            BTW, by your own logic, if women in non-combat roles who were killed don’t count then neither do the white men who weren’t in combat positions that got killed. So according to you only those who died in “combat” in combat positions count. Tell that to the families of every non-combat soldier who died or came home injured. For the 1.4 million active duty personnel there are only 237,000 actual combat positions. Women have been asking for the privilege of being able to at least try to qualify for those positions for decades. It’s not their fault that the military wouldn’t let them. Now that door has been opened, we will see more female soldiers die according to your rule about who counts and who doesn’t.

            Also, your obsession with combat positions ignores the fact that “The years of warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan have blurred, if not erased, the traditional notions of combat versus noncombat positions. Battle fronts are fluid, and the concept of a defined front line is virtually meaningless.” [source] That was my point when I mentioned the female MP’s who helped with house sweeps, questioning, etc. In total 280,000 women were deployed to those two wars. Just because they weren’t in official combat positions didn’t mean they weren’t in danger. This is true for all of the soldiers regardless of gender–drivers, cooks, supply clerks, medics, etc. If you were truly in the military I’m actually shocked that you would disregard the danger and sacrifice that non-combat soldiers faced over there.

  • Razib_Taif1

    Belly dancing is awesome. As a person from a culture with ‘belly dancing’ I love it when white people or anyone else enjoys the art. It’s exciting to see something from my world integrate into the wonderful masala that is America. Dance your asses off white people!

    • Serai 1

      Most true artists enjoy teaching others their art, and are happy when it spreads, especially when it’s in danger of dying out in its own country, as is the case with “belly” dancing in Egypt.

      • Razib_Taif1

        very true, i’ve never once heard a persian, turk or arab get upset that the dancer was white, black or korean. this is the first time i’ve ever come across such an idea – this woman is racist and well… just stupid. there really is no other word for what she has written.

        • OfficialPro

          only insane commie marxist fools get angry about things like that.

    • OfficialPro

      ‘Cultural appropriation’ is for mad Hatters and clueless feminazis who didn’t take their meds today.

      • vintagelady1


    • Road Less Traveled

      I also saw another group address well. There is belly dancing in Turkey and parts of Greece, with some White cultures having had it in their history… I think they said Bulgaria too.

  • giantslor

    One more reason to love this site.

  • cleos_mom

    One of the oddest experiences of my life was being offered a job as a belly dancer in Macon, Georgia of all places. Found out too late that the offer was legit but it made me curious enough to take an introductory class. Gave me a lot of respect for the discipline and concentration it takes.

    Silly me, I was too young & uninformed to know that it was forbidden fruit, so to speak.

  • swift_4

    Some of those words you used came from France and Germany. Stop using them immediately!

    On the plus side, most kids can stop doing math homework. Wouldn’t want to misappropriate those Arabic numerals.

    • Road Less Traveled

      If I see one more rock band from Asia, Africa, or even in non-afro carribean Latin America, I am going to lose my sh$t. I mean, all of those instruments came from first Europe and then the style developed in the US! Stop APPROPRiATING!

  • HilaryB

    Okay, fine! I’ll stick to square dancing! Geez.

    • nerdnam

      Please present proof of Southern Appalachian mountain ancestry before proceeding, please, thank you.

      • Road Less Traveled

        Yes, lol.

        Meanwhile, I want to never again see any POC doing ball-room dancing, or playing a guitar. Those both developed in Europe.

  • Victor_the_Crab

    Nice to hear from you again Sam. We thought you fell into a vat of liquefied tofu and drowned.

  • Jason E

    I’m Irish/Scottish decent where the hell does this leave me? River dancing with plate of haggis? F that S.

    • woodrowfan

      I hear you! We can’t even enjoy a potato with our steak because potatoes are Peruvian! My ancestors fled Wales, Scotland and Ireland to the New World for a reason. I suspect it was to find a decent meal…

      • IrishGrrrl

        Actually, they probably left to find a meal….any meal would do.

    • IrishGrrrl

      You forgot the kilt, my dear. One would NEVER EVER river dance with haggis without a proper kilt.

      • SeverelyLtd

        Is this Haggis ya’ll keep bring up the pimply, fat girl in the corner? Because kudos to you if it is, that is real compassion to pull her from the shadows for a dance or two. I’m ashamed to say, kilt or no kilt, I never had the courage.

    • Lancelot Link

      You could always have that authentically native Scottish dish, Chicken Tikka Masala….

      • Aaron Litz

        It’s the Secret Chimp!

    • Jessica Streeter

      I choked on my totally appropriated cheese and crackers….I don’t care that this post is old, I love it.

      • Jason E

        A timeless classic.

    • Marina Doshkevich

      Tartan Plaid is possibly the most popular type of textile ever.

  • Arcnor

    For shame, Samuel!

    Eating at “Chinese” restaurants?

    Any true educated and enlightened liberal knows that almost all of the “Chinese” restaurants one encounters in North America are actually purveyors of corrupted versions of Cantonese cuisine. By not identifying the true cultural origins of these so-called “restaurants,” by not educating the public as to the actual cultural differences between “Cantonese” and “Mandarin” and revealing modern China to be the mosaic of ethnicities and cultures it really is (as opposed to a land populated by a monolithic — and fictional — “Chinese” people) and by not simultaneously denouncing the “restaurants” in question for the terrible cultural affronts they are, you’ve become part of the problem!

    My smelling salts! Where are my smelling… salts…

    • Aaron Litz


      Only The West is a monolithic cultural identity… everywhere else in the world is a wondrous mosaic of dancing lights of humanity.

      • Road Less Traveled

        EVERYONE knows that there is only one White “culture,” that is indistinguishable across all European countries and white-majority countries. State the obvious!!

        • Bair

          Someone actually made that argument the other day.

          Well, that Americans have no culture because it’s all stolen.

          What I would like to know is.

          Is a black person guilty of cultural appropriation if they wear an Indian headdress? or does that only apply to whites?

          Can black people bellydance, but whites cannot?

          I mean, this is where the nuance comes in, right?

          • Road Less Traveled

            Some of it was stolen. But “American” culture isn’t just White culture. And, there are most definitely people of all kinds that brought non-stolen culture to the US. Finally, one of my biggest pet peeves with SJWs is they say “Only white people have ever oppressed anyone or had the power to do so” or “White culture this or that.” Then, when someone says “White cultures aren’t just in America but in Europe or other places” or “in other countries other races have oppressed people and had power” then SJWs say “I MEANT IN AMERICA.”

            It’s ridiculous. That’s my first response to their argument.

            As to cultural appropriation, I think it’s a bid ridiculous to say that only white appropriation is bad. For example, with the headdress example, if relevant Native Americans truly feel that ANY person who wears one, and hasn’t gone through the proper ceremonies or award, is mocking or disrespecting their culture, then why would that be less true for let’s say Black people who do it?

          • Bair


            And some Native Americans (apparently this term is considered racist by some) might not have a problem with it.

            So whose opinion is correct? is there room for nuance here?

            Any conversation with an SJW turns into a game of Oppression Olympics.

            And as for the bellydancing, apparently there are many many different forms of bellydancing, from all over the Middle East and North Africa. Yet the author of the Salon article chose to lump all Arab people into one homogenous group. I say *thats* verging on, you know, the kind of dogwhistle racism that we see from certain segments of the population.

          • Road Less Traveled

            It’s interesting because some people prefer American Indian, even though that still has a colonial inflection. First Nations is nice.

            As to belly dancing, a person on here said there are white cultures that have been doing it for a long time too, in the Mediterranean basin and places such as Bulgaria.

            And yes, many people of color such as Indians, don’t have a problem with say white people doing yoga, and in fact often encourage them to do so or even teach them.

            Why does some random minority within let’s say India get to own their entire culture, especially when many of these SJWs don’t even practice any of these things. I know lots of Indians that have no interest in yoga and mock it themselves. And even if they did practice, why do they get to speak for everyone else, or own it exclusively?

            Same with belly dancing. I disagree with this idea of owning cultural artifacts.

    • freeinaz

      smelling salts were lost with the MSG

  • Aaron Litz

    The return of Sam Doloncot!

    I likewise DEMAND that American culture stop profiting from its appropriation of Geek culture.. all the superhero movies of the past 15 years are a slap in the face to all of us who have been been ridiculed for decades for reading comic books. And the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit movies are an insult to those of us who have been flushied, wedgied, stuffed in lockers, and maligned as nerds and dweebs for reading fantasy literature and playing Dungeons & Dragons (always spelt with an ampersand, NEVER the word “and!” Preferably a dragon-shaped ampersand, but a common ampersand suffice if you are so backward as to not have a dragon available… albeit barely.)

    I DEMAND to have my marginalization and ostracism back! This appropriation of Geek Culture by the Frat-Boy DudeBro fashion-unchallenged cis-popular community WILL NOT STAND!

    -A concerned and PROUD D&D-American.

    • Vermillion

      Hear, hear!

      • Aaron Litz


        Why, whatever is wrong with an evil matriarchal society of black-skinned elves in dominatrix leather? ;P

        PS Don’t ever call him Mr! That’s just a patriarchal badge of master/slave domination and ownership of womyn!

    • Pamela

      Hear! Hear!

  • feloniousgrammar

    “Anyone who suffers a serious but non-permanent physically debilitating injury shouldn’t be allowed the use of a wheelchair, as this is an ableist appropriation of differently abled culture.”

    I have a permanent yet often not so debilitating condition, that gets pretty oppressive at times— MS. Sometimes I have such awful fatigue that I have to use a cart in stores or I’ll blow my whole reserve energy for that day, and risk not being able to walk out. You would not believe all the guardians of the carts out there. I couldn’t give less of a damn about them, but my sidekick takes notes. You see, I’m not fat enough or crippled enough to use the carts. I can see how some might be confused— sometimes I have intense pain in my hips when sitting down that gets continually worse. I stand and waddle a little so the pain dissipates, then sit down again when my gait starts to get over wobbly and round we go. It drives them nuts. It unites some in a fit of activist camaraderie composed of their judgment of who should be using carts based on nothing more than presumptuous busybodyness.

    Likewise, people who aren’t in a wheelchair can’t be disabled. If Arnold Schwarzenegger sat in a wheelchair they’d think he was disabled. We do have to put up with a lot of amateur health specialists, but fuck ’em.

    • Aaron Litz

      I sympathize, heartily.

      I have degenerative disc disease… essentially my vertebral discs just crack and leak like dry husks. It happens to everyone, eventually, but mine started acting at 18 as if I were about 50 years older than I am. I’ve had to have 3 back surgeries since I was 19 to remove the leaked disc material, all in the exact same place (L5 S1) where the leaking material was cutting of a nerve route to my legs and slowly paralyzing them, and they have left the musculature of my lower back like so much hamburger (Someday I’ll probably talk about the 5 day-long spinal headache I had after my second surgery… my cerebro-spinal fluid was leaking out my incision quite a bit (it smells musky and tastes like smoky saltwater) and so the pressure on my brain got dangerously low, causing it to swell. It felt like my brain was being sucked out through a straw at the base of my skull, or was being eaten from the inside-out, and I started seeing leering faces everywhere I looked. The nurses told me the pain is comparable to childbirth, only inside your skull… I don’t know how true that is, but it lasted for 5 days. All I know is those “1-10” pain charts are forever ruined for me because no other pain has ever risen above a 1 in comparison.)

      As a result of my mangled back muscles, I can’t sit upright for longer than about 2 hours at a time. I can’t stand for longer than about half an hour. Getting up and moving around alleviates the pain only momentarily; the muscles are all just twisted meat. I can’t even stay lying down for more than a few hours without my back starting to throb and burn… (trying to sleep is a nightmare, pun unintended, and I am regularly awake for days at a time because I cannot get to sleep until I literally pass out from exhaustion… and that’s on top of Tourette Syndrome tics keeping me awake. So when my posts get long-winded and weird, please excuse me, it probably means I’m in the middle of a long stretch without sleep. I’m on Day 2 now.)

      Walking around in a store for more than an hour leaves me teary-eyed and whimpering no matter how hard I try to hold it back. I would dearly love to use one of those carts sometimes, but I already get enough people giving me the hairy eyeball when I try to explain my physical and neurochemical/emotional medical problems because it just isn’t readily apparent from the outside.

      Sometimes I have to walk with a cane, but that isn’t so bad. I have a cool one.

      OK I guess I should stop now… damn I wish I could get to sleep…

      • feloniousgrammar

        Mercy! I don’t know what to even hope for this than a cure. Fucking awful! A possibility of some relief, perhaps— I had only been able to sleep in one position for about three years. It was on my stomach, sprawled out with no limbs touching other limbs. Then that stopped working, so I got an Omnia recliner built with dual motors. It doesn’t lie completely flat, but it comes close and all parts move separately so the number of possible positions is great. It can also tip upward so that I can be helped out of the chair, if that time comes when I need it. I’ve been sleeping on my back since/ Sometimes I sleep all the way through without waking up to take more medication for pain and sleep. I also rest and nest in it during the day. Being able to change my position from time to time takes pressure off wearied body parts. It’s a very cushiony chair and it will outlive me.

        I had a psychotic episode from extended sleep deprivation coupled with severe hypervigilance. Trust me, I believe that sleep deprivation and exhaustion is debilitating. Fuck ’em— take the cart.

        I didn’t want to sleep in some ugly medical device and wanted comfort. I got it. I love it.

        • feloniousgrammar

          I was saving up for something like this, but spent it on a chair. Next year I hope to get the scooter (after paying for a bit of dental work). I believe you can take these through most box stores, they’re not much bigger and some may be smaller than store carts. Though you’d need a bigger basket or a friend to push a cart to buy much.

          • Aaron Litz

            That looks pretty cool. :)

    • IrishGrrrl

      WTF is wrong with people? Just because they can’t SEE your illness doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Sometimes I despair of the human race. I’m sorry you have to deal with that crap.

  • Pinkamena Diane Pie

    See image.

    Also Disqus is some bullshit. I make my comment and suddenly I’m logged out before I can post it? What is THIS garbage?

    • nevilleross

      This is the same crap I see each and every time I go to Racialicious; what’s more, if you say anything against an article like Ms. Jarrar’s when it’s published there, you can expect to have your comment deleted under the Terms of Service, or get your ass blasted by the other commenters if it gets approved and published.

      Whatever happened to saving time and energy for real issues about race and class?


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