In Which I Explain the Debt Ceiling and Financial Apocalypse to Rand Paul and Sarah Palin

palin_rand_paul

The Republican misinformation geyser continues to erupt unabated. Today, let’s focus on a pair of statements from tea party champions Sarah Palin and Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) who seem to completely misunderstand the deficit, the debt ceiling, the economic status of the United States and what would happen if we default on the debt (spoiler: it’ll be very bad).

Yesterday, Rand Paul tweeted that the solution to the debt ceiling crisis is for the United States to “cut up the credit card and balance our budget.”

Interesting, considering how since 2009, the budget has been balanced more rapidly than at any time in modern history. A congressman from Florida, Dennis Ross wrote yesterday, “For the first time since the Korean War, total federal spending has gone down for two years in a row.” Ross is a Republican who supports a the passage of a clean continuing resolution, and Politifact declared his statement to be unequivocally “TRUE.” Of course it is.

The deficit, specifically related to Paul’s call for a balanced budget, has declined by more than 50 percent and, by the end of the president’s second term, it will have dropped to around two percent of GDP. That’s superb especially considering the deficit was a record $1.4 trillion four years ago.

As for the debt, do we really need to perform this dance again? Yes, the debt is high, continues to rise and long-term debt will eventually become problematic. But why is the current debt so high? Several things, according to CBPP and Bloomberg: two wars during the Bush years; the Bush tax cuts; the Great Recession; and the bailouts (TARP, the stimulus, etc). So if the GOP is this radically against long-term debt, why didn’t they speak up years ago? A question for the ages.

So, yeah, I realize numbers make Rand Paul’s brain itch, but there they are.

Speaking of itchy brains, former half-term governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, tweeted the following:

She clearly doesn’t understand what the debt ceiling is all about. Allow me to explain.

First, the United States isn’t bankrupt. Politifact, when it declared a similar statement by Ron Paul to be “FALSE,” wrote the following:

Your paycheck doesn’t cover your bills every month. But you have a great credit score, use your credit card to cover the difference, and have no trouble paying your credit card bill. Would you describe yourself as “bankrupt” or “impoverished”?

To believe the U.S. is bankrupt, you’d have to believe the economy has failed, corporate profitability is dead, productivity has dropped off, tax receipts are declining, our credit rating is in the crapper, our annual budget deficits are skyrocketing, the dollar is abandoned and we can no longer pay our debts. None of that is true. In fact, quite the opposite.

Any casual observer of, well, the news can probably rattle off a list of other positive economic developments including a recovering housing sector, a record high stock market, increased job growth, declining unemployment, reduced annual deficits, increased domestic energy production and so forth.

And besides, whatever happened to American Exceptionalism? Mrs. Palin?

As for the debt ceiling, the president isn’t asking to “keep the debt going,” whatever that means. He and other rationally-thinking humans are simply demanding that Congress do its duty to authorize the means to pay interest on loans that have already been spent on other things Congress itself previously authorized. In other words, we have an obligation to pay the interest on our existing debt. And if we don’t do that, suddenly U.S. creditors get jittery, our credit worthiness evaporates — everything falls apart.

Palin might not realize that we reached the debt limit back in May, but Treasury Secretary Jack Lew has been using various accounting tricks to stave off a default. Those tricks will unfortunately run out on October 17. After that, the Treasury will have to meet spending obligations of roughly $60 billion, give or take, every day using just $30 billion in cash reserves and whatever tax revenues are collected. It won’t be enough — not by a long shot. The CBO reports that the U.S. would run out of money by October 20. At that point, the great collapse would begin. Lawsuits by the thousands against the government from unpaid contractors would pile up. The dollar would collapse. Social Security checks would go unpaid. Global financial markets would crash. Mass hysteria.

Dozens of economists, bankers and market experts predict it will be a “financial apocalypse.”

And right there, the intransigent Republican Party will have precipitated the actual bankrupting of America — its citizens along with it, and the worst economic disaster of our time, perhaps in the entire history of the U.S. It’d be a meltdown which two world wars, Osama Bin Laden, Vietnam, Watergate and several presidential assassinations failed to manifest. Ironically, it will have happened at time when the U.S. economy was gaining strength, while deficits were declining and while 30 million Americans were on the verge of attaining affordable health insurance.

It’s that latter item that’s animated the Republican strategy to unnecessarily shove us to the brink yet again. That, and because people like Rand Paul, Sarah Palin and the tea party which they represent simply do not understand how fiscal policy and the economy function. And if they do understand, yet are playing this game anyway, it’s almost worse than not understanding at all. If that’s in fact the case, they deserve the shame and scorn of an entire nation; left, right and center.

Bob Cesca is the managing editor for The Daily Banter, the editor of BobCesca.com, the host of the Bubble Genius Bob & Chez Show podcast and a Huffington Post contributor.

  • kfreed

    Bob… it’s nice, and good, and right that you’re trying to dispel some very pungent Tea Party mythology, but until you all wrap your brains around some fundamental realities, you’re not going to make a dent in Sarah Palin, Rand Paul or any other Tea Party “conservative” mythology that people in their millions lap up daily:

    Pew Research Center: “The Tea Party and [Fundamentalist] Religion”
    http://www.pewforum.org/2011/02/23/tea-party-and-religion/

    Talk To Action: “Tea Party ideology is not new but taps into decades of Religious Right instruction on “Biblical Capitalism.”
    http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/2/1/132159/0192

    ****This is not some fly-by-night website, serious research going on here.

    Nor is this one (daily updates): http://www.rightwingwatch.org/

  • hardtimz

    Well we all know Sara Palin, isn’t exactly know for her book and policy knowledge. She’s only worth a few good one liners, and even that sh*t is getting old, tired and stale!

  • joseph2004

    Well I don’t know, Bob. Apocalypse? Another one? If I didn’t know better, I’d say you were predicting the “End Times.”
    I guess nobody said you had to be a religious zealot to engage in that sort of fear mongering.

    • kfreed

      Economists mean it metaphorically, Sarah Pailin believes it literally, as in the Rapture happening in her lifetime… it’s the stupid driving the Tea Party wingnuts.

  • http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/ IrishGrrrl

    Oh, Bob, don’t forget just a week or two ago, they announced that GDP was at a growth rate of 2.3 (and a GDP growth rate between 2% and 4% is considered healthy). Of course, that will go down now.

    • monizame

      hahahahahahararara

      • D_C_Wilson

        What a surprise. The wingnut troll is laughing because the economy is likely to take a dive thanks to the antics of the GOP.

        Like I said, if you want to know who truly wants to destroy this nation, look at whoever claims to love it the most.

  • kfreed

    Lee Fang, The Nation: “Meet the Evangelical Cabal Orchestrating the Shutdown”
    http://www.thenation.com/blog/176538/meet-evangelical-cabal-orchestrating-shutdown#sthash.omPqUUdD.dpuf

    Aside from the last bit (upon which I ask the author an important question), this article adds a dimension to our understanding of the travesty that is the Tea Party Congress, which we tend to ignore… but which happens to be the force behind the batshit crazy, including the crazy exhibited by Sarah Palin and Rand Paul:

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/republican-presidential-hopefuls-favorite-christian-nation-extremist

  • BlueTrooth

    When Americans realize that America actually makes money (not a profit) back from our own Debt, they may begin to understand that it really isn’t the “evil” they’ve been taught in Sunday school. When Americans understand that our Debt, more than any “financial assistance to foreign nations”, benefits the Global Economy and promotes growth in all nations, we might make progress. The “kitchen table” analogy has to stop. By the way, if ANYONE says America is “bankrupt” just remind them that America cannot go bankrupt because we own the printing presses. Sure, inflation and deflation can be problematic, but we control the flow of money. I mentioned bankruptcy the other day in reference to a “leveraged buyout” campaign by the Libertarian and Corporatist bankrollers. I should have used the term “reorganization”, I suppose. One intriguing aspect of the current Republican fiasco is the competing “powers” involved. The Repub/Tea Party aggregate has a problem with BIG money blocks that disagree on the “endgame” and/or how to achieve any particular goal. I mean, we even saw anti-abortion make a brief appearance in the early stages! But the most dangerous idea floating around is the “let’s test a default” sentiment. Our economy, as huge as it is, is dependent on a simple intangible called “Trust”. Libertarians insist that economies should be based on “things” like gold, silver and other commodities, but the value is still a matter of “trust”. Piecemealing our payments breaks the trust we have established for timely, guaranteed payments. Even Palin should know this simple concept…but then again, she’s been known to break her commitments on a regular basis. Anyway, I’m seeing an unraveling on the right…the competing interests are starting to deny culpability.

    • feloniousgrammar

      Very true and very serious, but the trust issue always makes me think of the Monty Python skit about an architect who builds on the principles of speculators and the Stock Exchange, so that occupants must have faith that the towering apartment complex will stay erect— lose a little faith and the building starts teetering.

    • mrbrink

      That’s exactly correct. The global economy flows through our system for better and for worse(For worse, see: Citizens United). Our debt and the backing of that debt with the full faith and credit of America is what makes the world go ’round.

      The only issue we have with servicing our debt posing the greatest threat to our existence is the Republican party. They are the self-fulfilling prophets of doom.

      • monizame

        they aren’t the ones sp[ending us into oblivion…you king is. but he makes you think it’s everybody elses fault…

        • mrbrink

          Godspeed, illiterate fuck. Godspeed.

        • nathkatun7

          Do you even know the meaning of the term King?

    • monizame

      Wow! An MSNBC scholar..

  • Nefercat

    This is a well written explanation of the debt ceiling and financial apocalypse.

    As far as Palin is concerned, however, nothing (in particular, “facts” or “ideas”) can penetrate the dense fog of enraged lust and hatred for the President which (combined with a vicious and noisy imbecility) constitutes what passes for that dim-witted harpy’s “brain.”

  • D_C_Wilson

    I realize numbers make Rand Paul’s brain itch

    Are you sure it’s not that dead wombat on his head?

    To believe the U.S. is bankrupt, you’d have to believe the economy has failed, corporate profitability is dead, productivity has dropped off, tax receipts are declining, our credit rating is in the crapper, our annual budget deficits are skyrocketing, the dollar is abandoned and we can no longer pay our debts.

    I have reached the conclusion that this is precisely the outcome the far right (ie, the teabaggers and other assorted nuts) is hoping for. I am absolutely convinced that people like Ted Cruz and Randy Paul want nothing short of the total collapse of the US federal government. It’s not just because it would bring down the Evil Kenyan Atheist Muslim Socialisit Nazi Usurper, although that is a plus in their minds. What they really want is bring about the collapse of the strong federal government and make the states supreme by replacing our Constitution with something similar to the Articles of Confederation.

    If you want to know who really wants to destroy America, always look at the ones who proclaim their love of it the loudest.

    • feloniousgrammar

      The Prez is doing a great job of messaging, but I would like him to mention Social Security, SSDI (disability) and Medicare being bye-bye more often. That the Pugs are actually rallying to get support from the elderly for whom they wish to cut off, could be amplified and repeated.

    • monizame

      you’re obviously drunk on Obama koolaid

      • D_C_Wilson

        Nice. Do you have anything intelligent to add or are you just here to be a troll?

        • monizame

          I love obama care..I love Obama,Ihate Tea baggers,It’s george bushes fault,congress wont negotiate,Nancy pelosi is queen,Hillary for president,Ted Cruz is crazy….Want to read more?? now do you like me/

          • D_C_Wilson

            I guess that answers my question.

        • Frank

          dont feed the trolls

  • DrowningKittens

    Default is failing to pay interest on debt. The US brings in 10 times more than that each month. The bills are paid. The debt ceiling only cripples new spending.

    • formerlywhatithink

      Default is failing to pay interest on debt. The US brings in 10 times more than that each month.

      Yeah, of course paying the interest on the debt is the only spending the government does, right? It’s statements like this that signals some people should sit out the debate on the debt limit since they have not the slightest clue what they are talking about. What’s your next trick? Comparing government spending to household spending?

      • ak1287

        The dude has a picture of Stimpy. I think you won this debate by default, formerlywhatithink.

      • DrowningKittens

        Of course there’s more things that need money. But Harry’s failure to pass House appropriations doesn’t entail default. That’s a scare tactic.

        • kfreed

          You mean the Tea Party’s failure to pass appropriations.

    • Pink No More

      Thanks, Dr. Stupid!

    • kfreed

      Where’d you get that idea? Please provide a link… I really want to know.

      • DrowningKittens

        It’s common knowledge. Here’s a WSJ blog from the last shutdown scare and a recent link to a Thomas Sowell piece:

        http://blogs.marketwatch.com/fundmastery/2011/07/12/the-u-s-treasury-will-not-default/
        http://rare.us/story/sowell-who-shut-down-the-government/

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663669914 Sean Richardson

          So, the first article there claims that we can just decide not to pay defense contractors (to pick just one random example)/ Can you explain how not paying somebody for services provided does not count as accumulating further debt?

          • DrowningKittens

            Appropriated money has already been borrowed for and accounted. If the ceiling isn’t raised, the government would face a further 8% slowdown to 75%. Spending would return to about 2001 levels and future appropriations would face rationing.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663669914 Sean Richardson

            It’s weird that you don’t even see the contradiction in your own explanation.

          • DrowningKittens

            It’s about the numbers I referenced, not the source. You’re splitting hairs on the elephant in the room. Mr. Cesca’s article chastises Palin and Paul for threatening bankruptcy and then threatens an equally disastrous default in the next paragraph. There’s the contradiction. Plus the fact that we are not defaulting. It is a scare tactic.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663669914 Sean Richardson

            Take a step back, collect yourself, and think about what you are actually trying to prove. Then try and find links and facts which will help bolster the argument, or at least not directly contradict it (it also helps if they are internally consistent). I honestly believe that this will result in you crafting stronger positions than randomly selecting sentences and then, when there are enough of them, hitting “Post”.

          • DrowningKittens

            I disagree. I laid out a clear objection to this article and you have no answer.

          • kfreed

            I provided an answer in the simplest possible terms. You “disagree” based on the “opinion” of someone who has zero expertise in/knowledge of the issue. Why all “opionions” are not equal.

          • kfreed

            Wall Street may be composed of a bunch of psychopaths, but they DO understand the debt ceiling. You’d think a RW rag dedicated to the interstests of Wall Street wouldn’t be pushing half-baked Tea Party/Ron Paul delusions:

            “Government shutdown: Wall Street angry at tea party it has no influence over” http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/government-shutdown-wall-street-tea-party-97734.html

          • DrowningKittens

            You’re anger is showing.

          • kfreed

            In this scenario, Wall Street’s anger is showing. I’m here for the popcorn and the WSJ kitty box liner.

            You mean “your anger is showing”

          • DrowningKittens

            I’m enjoying the banter too, but unfortunately I got to go to work. I’ll get back later today after I get a chance to look through your sources. Have a good morning.

          • kfreed

            You referenced BS.

          • DrowningKittens

            What I said isn’t.

          • kfreed

            Yeah, unfortunately it is:

            “Debt ceiling: Understanding what’s at stake”
            http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57606253/debt-ceiling-understanding-whats-at-stake/

            Nite, nite.

          • DrowningKittens

            Unfortunately it is. CBS is your source? Try again. (see how that works)

          • kfreed

            It’s not weird that he doesn’t see his own contradictions. Check his comment history. He doesn’t want to see it and is simply repeating RW talking points as instructed.

            Get your Tea Party/Freedomworks Defunding Obamacare Toolkit here: http://bernasvibethewayiseeit.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/tea-party-patriots-defunding-obamacare-toolkit-freedomworks-blueprint-for-defunding-obamacares/

          • DrowningKittens

            I’m not promoting it. I’m only calling you out on your “sky is falling” scare tactics.

          • kfreed

            “Debt ceiling: Understanding what’s at stake”
            http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57606253/debt-ceiling-understanding-whats-at-stake/

            Just because Ron Paul says it ain’t no big deal, doesn’t make it true:)

          • DrowningKittens

            I didn’t say it wasn’t a big deal, ok? And again, I’m not promoting it. No kidding this shouldn’t be the way to do business. But scaring people with lies about a default is simply wrong.

        • Robert Scalzi

          Uncle Thomas Sowell from the Hoover institute ?? you have got to be kidding – that fool hasn’t been correct on anything EVER. you are a Joke

          • DrowningKittens

            What’s wrong with what he said?

          • Robert Scalzi

            everything he says is wrong, always has been

          • DrowningKittens

            He said a default is failing to pay interest on a debt. He also said the US takes in more revenue than the interest on our debt. Therefore, no default. Tell me how this is wrong.

          • Robert Scalzi

            Well it is wrong but I will leave the gathering of REAL economic facts to teh economists….. So you believe TS -WOW …. So let me get this straight – 99% of the economists , wall street , and Big Biz ( not exactly Liberals) are wrong and uncle tom is right ?? wow , you need to stop with the Kool Aid and if you want facts stop reading Thomas Sowell

          • DrowningKittens

            Please explain where this valid argument is wrong?
            1. A default is not paying interest on a debt.
            2. Current US revenue is roughly 10 times the interest payment.
            3. Therefore, default is not imminent.
            I want to stop drinking the Kool Aid, but I can’t unless you can give me a sound counter example.

          • Robert Scalzi

            So stop drinking it , it’s easy – start with reading reputable economists opinions on this debate – take a look at what the wall st execs are saying and what their figures say, Not what some conservatard douchebag who has no foundation in economics has to say – he is Lying or uninformed either way TS is not your friend and certainly not anyone to trust on economics – his so called facts are nothing but HIS and the tea parties opinions. Do a little of your own digging – and not at Rightwing echo chamber sites

          • DrowningKittens

            I think this article is wrong. But didn’t just say it’s wrong. I spelled it out and later added sources. If I’m so wrong, it should easy to point out.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663669914 Sean Richardson

            The answer is #1.

            A default is when a debtor does not meet his obligations according to a debt contract that he agreed to when he took on the debt. Thus, in order for a default to be avoidable by only paying off interest on debts, the contracts would have to be written in such a way that interest-only payments would satisfy 100% of them. If you want to put in the work to look into it, go ahead, but I can save you some time and tell you that it simply isn’t so. (To say nothing of him suggesting that we can somehow acquire additional debt while not raising the debt ceiling.)

          • DrowningKittens

            The debt ceiling is self imposed and has nothing to do with ability to pay. Not raising it only forces spending reductions, not a default.

          • kfreed

            Wrong.

          • DrowningKittens

            The ceiling is a Constitutionally imposed limit and has nothing to do with fiscal solvency. Legislation by appropriations is not new.

          • nathkatun7

            “The ceiling is a Constitutionally imposed limit…”

            Nonsense! Cite the constitutional section that imposes the limit! I suggest yo go read Article I, Section 8, Article VI, and Section 4 of the 14th Amendment!

          • kfreed

            It’s like you buying a new car and then refusing to make the payment for shits and giggles.

        • kfreed

          Rupert Murdoch’s “fair and balanced” WSJ. Thanks. Now I can line my drowning kitten’s litter box:)

          • DrowningKittens

            As long as you use Gritty Kitty for your only material possession.

          • kfreed

            Yeah, because obviously I’m a homeless person with a cat. Why am I not surprised you’d go there:)

          • DrowningKittens

            You made a silly comment so I made a silly reply.

    • bbcaaat

      Ummmmm No.

  • Barbara Striden

    One thing that drives me nuts is that when a Republican is being interviewed about an issue related to the way the Federal government spends money, the interviewer almost always implicitly accepts the premise that the Republican is a fiscal conservative. The record shows that the opposite is the case. When a Paul Ryan starts babbling on about how the evil Kenyan Negro usurper is mortgaging our childrens’ future, the interviewer should gently interrupt, and say “Mr. Ryan, looking at your record, you have voted to add 5 trillion dollars to our debt; you are in no position to criticize the spending habits of others. Let’s focus on potential solutions to the problems we’re addressing. Please, no more slogans, cliches or talking points, or I’ll have to end the interview,” Of course, this will never happen, since these media people think of interviews as a form of professional and social networking.

    • feloniousgrammar

      But what would their sponsors say?

      The beauty of fiat currency is that you can’t run out. “Just printing money” is a beautiful thing when there isn’t enough circulating in the economy to keep the economy healthy. If Rand Paul had his way, money would only be backed by gold, and therefore so finite that the golden rule would apply— he who has the gold, makes the rules. I picture him sitting around, mentally jerking off to what he thinks his gold will be worth after he destroys the biggest economy on the planet.

      If these nuts refuse, in the end, to raise the debt ceiling; then constitutionally questionable or not the President is going have to step in and force the issue. The idea that the Founders created the three branches of government so that a faction of one party in one chamber could devastate our country’s economy and the world’s because they want to repeal a law passed by Congress, signed by the POTUS, and validated by the Supreme Court is preposterous.

      I suppose that a lot of these stupid white men feel entitled to have so much power that they can turn the human population on its ear out of pique; but even the thought of such blatantly entitled bully behavior makes another nation attacking us in response sound kinda fair. Economic terrorism is terrorism, a grave injustice, and murder.

      • http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/ IrishGrrrl

        “Economic terrorism is terrorism, a grave injustice, and murder.”

        Indeed, children who were waiting on NIH drug experiments to potentially arrest certain death from cancer will die. And if we default, FSM only knows how many more, all over the world, could die as a result of financial collapses. The blood of innocents is already on their hands. I’m worried about how much more there is to come as well.

      • monizame

        you have something against white men?? White men pay the black mans bills…..you should be ashamed to bite the hand that feeds you..

        • mfa

          here’s a thought gomer — go into the medicine cabinet where you keep one of the many guns hidden for that special day all you goobers have planned for us and insert into that gaping hole in the middle of your fat face (you know the one with all the missing teeth) then pull the trigger

          • monizame

            You must be describing your mother??

    • Christopher Foxx

      Of course, this will never happen, since these media people think of interviews as a form of professional and social networking.

      And lack the intellectual capacity to actually understand that Republicans lie.

    • drspittle

      It would also be nice if the interviewer researched federal subsidies in Congress VampireX’s district then ask the obvious question, “Which of the following program/business in your district which is funded by the Federal Government would you like to see cut?” That’s not “gotcha”, that’s asking a legitimate question.

    • bbcaaat

      I agree, the modern Democrats are far more “classically” conservative than the republicans. I feel that the republicans hijacked the word because it sells well.

      • monizame

        modern democrats???? progressive communist party now..

        • Badgerite

          Idiot say what now?

        • mfa

          i’ll take progressive anything over the rediculous definition of conservative you a-holes prescribe to.

          • monizame

            call me on your Obama phone and we can discuss your disease.

          • ak1287

            You must mean the phone program that didn’t actually start under Obama.

    • monizame

      man did you swallow??

  • monizame

    you liberal disgusting parrots are vermin,uneducated sheep….the writer of this article is obviously a leftist hack. I am not Rep or dem so forget the label…i am an american watching you right and left wing nut jobs destroying the country….You will have to pay a price for your treachery one day………Fk all you morons…

    • feloniousgrammar

      Fuck you, too, monizame. Have a nice day.

      • monizame

        thanks for your comment..looks like we’re both fkd…Thanks for contibuting.

        • http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/ IrishGrrrl

          No, we’re all fucked because House Republicans refuse to be grown ups and pay the damn bills that they themselves created and they’re doing so only for the purpose of overturning a law that they don’t like and can’t undo through the proper, legitimate legislative process. Their behavior is bordering (if it hasn’t already crossed the line) on treason and your support of them brands you as a traitor too. So, honestly, fuck you sideways.

          • monizame

            are you really that narrow minded Irish girl??? Obama yopur king is not at fault?? where have you been the past 51/2 years??? Yeah,go ahead and say it was george bushes fault..I will agree to an extent that George bush had a big role in starting it..As his daddy and the clintons,carter,Johnson etc..They are all globalists..but they are very smart globalists because they have you and others like you completely bamboozled…Yes right and left…Doesn’t that sound like division to you?? I does to me.. they have”Globalist elites” successfully divided the country….I hope most of you will wake up before it is too late….you all have no clue what”s really in store for you……Liberals especially better let God back in…They denied him in their convention….just a thought…

          • That River Gal

            Wow, two accounts, huh?

          • trgahan

            Ha! It is so funny how you all so quickly threw ol’ W into the “Evil Presidents” pile and made him part of the “grand conspiracy” after chanting “Four More Years!” at the 2006 CPAC.
            Sucks when you spend 8 years backing the wrong horse doesn’t it?

          • http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/ IrishGrrrl

            Again, sideways, hard. And your deity has nothing to do with this….your idiocy does.

          • monizame

            thank you…now go brush your teeth

          • http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/ IrishGrrrl

            Huh? That’s the lamest comeback I think I’ve ever read.

          • kfreed

            “Let God back in”… Ah, so a bible thumping Tea Party wanker…

            See here: “Meet the Evangelical Cabal Orchestrating the Shutdown” http://www.thenation.com/blog/176538/meet-evangelical-cabal-orchestrating-shutdown#sthash.omPqUUdD.dpuf

            So, no, Obama is not responsible for the #TeaPartyShutdown, as you well know.

            Here’s your problem (you’ve been brainwashed by Religious Right shysters, seek deprogramming therapy, STAT):

            “Tea Party ideology is not new but taps into decades of Religious Right instruction on ‘Biblical Capitalism.'”
            http://www.talk2action.org/story/2011/2/1/132159/0192

            Contrary to your beliefs, Jesus does not hate taxes, the minimum wage, unions, the poor, public education, Charles Darwin, scientists, college professors, teachers, liberals, women, gays, blacks, immigrants, or the federal government.

          • feloniousgrammar

            And the cranky end times stuff of dispensationalism, the product of a head injury:

            http://www.theocracywatch.org/christian_zionism_dispensationalism.htm

          • kfreed

            Tell me about it. Compare the Tea Party/Koch agenda to the the Religious Right agenda as outlined on that website… it’s identical:)

          • monizame

            you just named all the parasites..thank you.

          • kfreed

            Well, there ya go. That’s all anyone needs to know about your crippled mentality. You may now be excused from this forum.

          • monizame

            did you find all the posts on MSNBC??

          • kfreed

            The Nation… Talk To Action… look like MSNBC to you?

          • monizame

            sideways?? Don’t let michelle find out.

    • Robert Scalzi

      Bullshit you cat rapist – your first sentence outs you as a automaton right wing cat rapist

      • feloniousgrammar

        Probably started as a cat burglar, then the opportunity presented itself…

      • monizame

        sorry robert scalzi,i am neither right nor left..I am an american..Who are you?? a leftist robot?? sounds like it..don’t label me anything other than a patriot american..and if the word Patriot offends you then so be it…..yes liberalism disgusts me to the fullest….Right wing career politicans do likewise..Pres. Obama disgusts me the most…you are blindly following your dear king right to the toilet….You all bash tea party people..Well if you took the time to look and see who they are you might find your patriot neighbor,your grandfather,your dad,,,whatever…They aren’t a party,just a name…they are feared by both right AND LEFT BECAUSE THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH…Are you loyal to a corrupt party or are you loyal to America??? thats what you have to ponder..Your children and grandchildren etc are depending on you ….so call me a few more names if you like,,it don’t bother me…i know whats going on in this country and i hope you and others right or left will see the big picture before your ignorance dooms the country.

        • Robert Scalzi

          right , keep telling yourself that , and leave those cats alone

        • kfreed

          “I am neither right nor left” is Libertarian doublespeak for I’m a far right nincompoop without the sense genetics gave me to know that my political ideology is underming my own self interest (I don’t expect you to understand this as it won’t fit on a matchbook cover, but maybe you can get someone to explain it to you):

          #TeaPartyShutdown: “NYTimes Koch Brothers Exposé w/IRS Research”
          http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/07/1244878/-Pictorial-Response-to-Today-s-NYTimes-Koch-Brothers-Expos?detail=email

        • Robert Scalzi

          Just one more thing you Lying sack of shit – you can come in here w/ your I’m not a Dem or Rep LIES all you want , it’s not going to fly here …see there is a comment history trail that you have left behind and it pretty much just blasted the I’m mad at both sides LIE to smithereens. YOU ARE AN UNAPOLOGETIC LYING SCUMFUCKING TEABAGGER plain and simple – do the world a favor and SEEK professional help, I am positive they already have a rubber room ready for you.

          • monizame

            my oh my what a pig mouth….do you like to try to make people think you are some bad ass or something?? You just hide in your mommys closet and post nasty things..common type liberal..Even if i was a Tea Bagger i wouldn’t let you suck my bone so give it up homo.

          • Robert Scalzi

            homophobic too … what a surprise….NOT

      • monizame

        you don’t like cats?? liberalism is a disease..proves it you have raping cats on your small mind

        • nathkatun7

          Define liberalism!

    • Lady Willpower

      Is there anything resembling an argument here? How about a point? Any kind of facts would really help. If you think Bob’s wrong, prove it.

    • http://www.twitter.com/bobcesca_go Bob Cesca

      He seems nice.

      • drspittle

        I thought his/her comments were bad parodies of bad trolling.

    • ak1287

      I remember the days when people actually brought legitimate arguments to a comment thread.
      You, not so much.

      • monizame

        not trying to argue…just maybe one of you eggheads will spit it out and think for yourself…you are being duped and you like it.

        • ak1287

          You’re basically telling everyone here that if they don’t agree with your unstated belief system, they’re not thinking for themselves.

          Do you realize how idiotic that is?

      • monizame

        because someone disagrees with you it isn’t legitimate?? sounds like obama…

        • ak1287

          No. Your argument isn’t legitimate because you didn’t even posit one.
          I don’t care if you disagree with me or not; I care that you don’t even seem to have the basic intelligence to formulate an actual, defensible position.

          • monizame

            the best defense is a good offensive…and the truth is a good offense…Keep denying the truth and it will catch up to you one day…

          • ak1287

            But the problem is, you haven’t posited ANY truth, or even a coherent thought.
            Your basic platform seems to be ‘Obama bad…..’ and that’s it. You have no concrete reasoning, other than the fact that you dislike welfare for some unspecified, and probably inaccurate, reason. You claim sovereign status, but I don’t even really think you know what that means, or why it’s never been a viable option. And I really do think the reason you CAN’T edify your positions intelligently is because you either A) lack the intelligence to do so, which I’m hesitant to say; or B) you don’t actually have a position or ‘truth’ to actually post.

    • D_C_Wilson

      So, what is your solution then?

    • kfreed

      No, you’re a Libertarian douche who thinks Koch funded Libertarians are something other than a bunch of far right Republican lunatics. Obviously, you’re not so much watchdog as mental Chihuahua.

      • monizame

        Libertarian??? haha never been called tht before…I’m not tied to any party….I am not one of their sheeple…How do you get that way??

        • kfreed

          You’re a Tea Party/Libertarian/Republican dink… your comments give you away.

          • ak1287

            That’s actually a step beyond libertardian into something even worse: sovereign citizens.
            I’ve had more than enough dealings with them to know that they are, down to the member, a bunch of delusional fuckheads.

          • kfreed

            Sovereign Citizens are huge in the Tea Party… so we get a big ol’ ball of stupid with contributions from every RW delusional wanker faction known to man.

    • bbcaaat

      Awwww did we hurt your fewings?

  • RenoRick

    ” Lawsuits by the thousands against the government from unpaid contractors would pile up. The dollar would collapse. Social Security checks would go unpaid. Global financial markets would crash. Mass hysteria.”

    You forgot dogs and cats living together…

    When we start listening to a half-term snowbilly with a voice that sounds like a dying seal, we are all doomed. Same goes for Rand “Thanks Dad!” Paul…

  • trgahan

    I say to Rand and Sarah:
    If you’re both such economic experts (funny how faux-libertarians are also so…ill informed (being generous)), I want you both to pull all your net worth out of those off shore shell companies, real estate, and sheltered funds and put it all of it into U.S. Treasury bonds today! Let us see that how the “nothing” default affects your own wealth!

    • D_C_Wilson

      That would require them to invest in a government that they despise and are actively trying to undermine. Remember that Sarah’s husband Tahdd has flirted with secessionism and Randy Paul, well, to a use a cliche, the apple doesn’t fall far the tree.

    • monizame

      some of us work for a living…

      • trgahan

        from the volume of your posts, you’re clearly not one of them….

        • monizame

          You’re right,,,i’m retired…but still have to pay my taxes to support the liberal bottom feeders

          • trgahan

            Ha…yeah…you keep telling yourself that….

          • monizame

            I wish it wasn’t a fact

          • trgahan

            hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to help you sleep at night mate….

          • nathkatun7

            How, from Social Security and Medicare?

      • nathkatun7

        I bet!

  • Ipecac

    I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that, like the shutdown, Republicans of all stripes WANT the default. They know that, at least in the short-term, people blame the President for economic problems. All they care about is that the history books will say that this happened during Obama’s watch. They so hate Pres. Obama that they will take him down with them (and all of us) regardless of the human consequences.

    • monizame

      sorry,but you got everything twisted..your king obama is the one taking the country down.

      • Ipecac

        Oooh! King Obama. You totally got me. Nice argument. I am convinced.

        • monizame

          thank you….

          • mfa

            no . fuck you!

        • nathkatun7

          monizame is such a brilliant thinker! Based on his brilliance, he absolutely knows that It’s “king obama” who is commanding the Republicans in the House of Representatives to delight in shutting down the government and refusing to honor U.S. debts. In doing so, these Republicans in the House of Representatives are upholding the two most important parts of the U.S. Constitution, which are central to all “our liberties”: the 2nd Amendment and the 10th Amendment.

          Besides these two Amendments, everything else in the U.S. Constitution, as far as monizame and the tea baggers are concerned, is nothing but propaganda by the liberal, Democrat, “progressive communist party.” For example: Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution that charges the U.S. Congress with the power of raising revenues, through taxation and other means,”to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and the general welfare of the United States.” Or Section 4, of the 14th Amendment, which plainly and unequivocally States: “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law… shall not be questioned.”

          I wish the brilliant monizame, who I suppose belongs to the tea bag party that’s always claiming to be the defender of the U.S. Constitution, could point out to us any Section of the U.S. Constitution that empowers the President to enact a budget or empowers a president to to pay U.S. debts.

          How the refusal of Republican members of Congress to finance the government, and their threatened refusal to honor U.S. debt that Congress authorized, is all Obama’s fault defies common sense. I suppose monizame, the brilliant thinker, and expert on the nature of the U.S. political system, can easily explain this to us.

          By the way, monizame if Barack Obama is King what the hell is wrong with him? Is he not aware that Kings have Divine Rights? I am amazed that our supposedly King OBAMA has not thrown Boehner, Cantor, Cruz, (and all of you tea baggers) in the slammer; re-opened the government and raised the debt ceiling? So far, it seems to me that it’s the minority tea baggers that are acting as dictators, cowering the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the majority Republicans, to do as they are told because tea baggers hate the fact that the majority of Americans voted for a Black man to be President of the United States.

          • monizame

            just maybe the house isn’t giving the King a blank check to spend like a drunken sailor….Do any of you so called conservative liberals think the spending can go unchecked forever??? Yes GW spent like a fool too…Thats not an excuse for it to continue…….if the economy is doing so great as you say then maybe the freeloaders can get off their lazy asses and get a job…..The taxpayers are running out of money to pay their way….And it’s not that anyone hates a black man as president…what they hate is an incompetent black man as president….Bush was incompetent too so does that mean tea Baggers hate it because a white man was president??? Get your head out and breathe some fresh air…

          • mfa

            then why did all of your republiscum vote to extend the debt limit 4 times under dumbya — chk this dipshit : 2 wars off the budget tax breaks for the rich and bailing out the banks all great ideas huh? but still no problem extending the debt limit what say you ; you fucking idiot.

          • nathkatun7

            “And it’s not that anyone hates a black man as president…what they hate is an incompetent black man as president….Bush was incompetent too so does that mean tea Baggers hate it because a white man was president??? Get your head out and breathe some fresh air..”

            So how come you didn’t organize the tea baggers when Bush was President? How come the GOP didn’t shut down the govt. or refuse to raise the debt ceiling when Bush was President?

            You can pretend all you want, but your hatred of President Obama, who saved this country from going into a total depression, has absolutely nothing to do with his competency! Your hatred of him is all about his race! You know it and we all know it. All you need to do is to be honest and stop hiding behind worn out right wing talking
            points. For your information, I am a TAX PAYER! I’ve been paying taxes since I was 19 years old. I am now 68 years and still paying taxes. So, don’t try to lecture me
            about tax payers!

          • monizame

            The american people weren’t getting obamacare shoved down their throats when bush was president..Tea Party is only a name given to americans that rose up and stood against this communist regime..I’ll give you the satisfaction that bush and his daddy had alot to do with the over spending etc but that doesn’t excuse your king Obama for tripling it. The bushes,clintons, Carter,Johnson,and now Obama are all Globalist hacks…Fk anyones race..Race has nothing to do with it..If you are bad,you are bad…the half black president Obama is bad..TheGop is bad as is the Dem party…both are hijacked by the elitist globalists…
            So old man,don’t try to lecture me on your communist talking points….I am independent american first loyal to no party…You are so damn dumb you think you are smart…Obama saved the country..That is the biggest joke of the century..He’ds destroying the country because of sheeple followers like you who can’t think on your own…By the way old man ,i am 70 and paid for your welfare party since I was 16….So check mate…

          • nathkatun7

            I am glad we are about the same age, both of Tax Payers continuously subsidizing Big oil company and making the Billionaires richer while destroying the middle class and working class people. No you did not check mate me idiot, because I bet you were one of those going around holding a sign reading: “Keep your government hands off-my medicare?”

            By the way have you ever even read the Constitution? Here is what the Preamble to the Constitution says about the fundamental reasons for setting up the government of the United States:

            “WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, PROMOTE THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

            And here is one of the solemn responsibility the Constitution entrusted Congress, under Article I, section 8:

            “The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises to PAY THE DEBTS and PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE and GENERAL WELFARE of the United States…”

            You see all your ignorant and gibberish lies means nothing. You and I know that President Obama is not destroying the country except may be for the fact that he is presidenting while he is “the half black president.”

            For your information, the Affordable Care Act (that you idiots named, to your regret, Obamacare) was enacted into law by the majority in Congress, signed by a democratically elected President, and found CONSTITUTIONAL by the United States Supreme Court. Like it or not, it’s the law of the land! And also for your information, President Obama NEVER tripled George Bush’s spending! You plainly lying for saying so!

            Lastly, until you learn what “communism” entails, accusing President Obama of creating a “communist regime” makes you come across as really ignorant. The same is true of calling President Obama, who was elected by the majority of Americans, not once but twice, a King.

            It is a shame that some one of your age doesn’t know the difference between a King who inherits his position as a ruler
            and a President who is democratically elected by the people according to rules set up by the U.S. Constitution. For you to insist on calling him my king shows that you are either unethical or totally ignorant.

          • monizame

            If you can’t see it i guess theres no hope for you/

          • nathkatun7

            What is it you want me to see?

      • mfa

        wrong again goober. If you knew how to read (and weren’t too lazy to actually do so ) you would know that this bull excrement you listen to on that 7″ black and white screen in the outhouse tuned in to fox is well bull excrement!

  • Treading_Water

    How can you negotiate with one side whose ultimate goal is the destruction of effective government? It’s not as if they have a policy goal. Their goal all along has been this shutdown, regardless of how they got here. The worst part is, they never hid their intentions. All along they have said that government is incompetent, corrupt, and unnecessary, and now that they have the chance to prove it they’re doing the Snoopy dance over the toy they’ve broken. As a rational person, I’d like to believe that there is a line of reasonable argument that would sway these aggressively ignorant Teapublicans, but there is no evidence that they are capable of seeing reason if it conflicts with their ultimate goal – proving that government doesn’t work.

    • monizame

      you can’t negotiate with a fake president who campaigns for 51/2 years…

      • Treading_Water

        If you mean that working to abolish DADT and working for marriage equality for everyone, regardless of plumbing, saving the US auto industry, ending 1 unnecessary war and winding down the other unnecessary war, saving the country from financial apocalypse, overseeing over 3 years of steady job growth, cutting the deficit in half, guaranteeing women the right to sue for equal pay for equal work, fighting pirates, killing OBL, forcing Syria to abandon their chemical weapons program, finally forcing the VA to begin to work on cleaning up their backlog, all the while dragging the useless anchor that the House Republicans have become, then I’d love to see what he could accomplish when he’s done campaigning.

        By the way, what’s he campaigning for now? He can’t be re-elected so there is no campaign in his future.

        • monizame

          man,you call all that gut wrenching homo activity presidental??? He killed Osama Bin Laden?? hahrhahrhahrhahrhahrhahahah Putin forced him to shut the hell up…He fought pirates?? hahahrhahahahah thats one tough mfer…Gets woman to sue?? wow! he deserves another fake Nobel peace prize…Steady job growth?/ now you have to stop watching MSNBC and the lame stream media…Please see a doctor …He is campaigning for the senate and the house…doing a bad job…people want a president for all Americans..Not just the socalists..That useless anchor house republicans are whats keeping you a free man…

          • Badgerite

            I believe your tinfoil hat is slipping off. Better put it back on it you won’t be able to get your bearings.

          • monizame

            tinfoil?? you allowed to buy that stuff with your food stamps??

          • Badgerite

            I’ve never been on food stamps. But perhaps you have since red states seem to partake of those services far more than blue.

          • monizame

            Whats a red or blue state?? You mean people have thir own states?? Obama is the food stamp president so what does that say for ya?? george bush and his daddy are globalists..So does that make one better than the other?? you are being duped if you think Red and blue makes you a better american than the other…..

          • Badgerite

            Word salad. No thought and absolutely no meaning.

          • nathkatun7

            Define “globalists”! Was Reagan a globalist for sending Marines to Lebanon, supporting the contras in Nicaragua, invading tiny, tiny Grenada, and selling arms to the Mullahs in Iran? Why do you keep using terms you do not understand?

          • nathkatun7

            Please define socialism and communism!

      • mfa

        nothing else to do when half the kids in the playpen refuse to play the game the way it is supposed to be played– jesus why don’t you fucks just go ahead and start the process to secession ; i’m sure all of us in the blue states (who have been supporting you worthless fucks ) wouldn’t mind kicking in a few more bucks for a good cause!

  • Badgerite

    Boehner seems to think that destruction of the world as we know it is a normal legislative negotiating tactic. What an SOB. I can see now why Michelle Obama snubbed him at the second inaugural. She KNOWS him. Why the Democrats threatened destruction of the world back during the Reagan administration. No, that did not happen. What’s more, Saint Reagan raised taxes primarily because he knew that they needed to be raised.

    • D_C_Wilson

      Boehner is a drunken stooge. He’s been letting the inmates run the asylum from day one. He’s so terrified of facing the Wrat of the Teabaggers that he’s let the country stagger from one manufactured crisis to another. The Crazy Caucus would do half as much damage as they are if we had even a marginally effective Speaker.

      • JuliaWardHowe

        Desperately clinging to his leadership position at the expense of his country.

        • feloniousgrammar

          What a coward. What has this nation come to when members of Congress are so afraid of losing their jobs that they appear to think that they have no marketable skills or connections with which to get another job? That just screams that they’re too incompetent to be working in Congress.

          • monizame

            Maybe they haven’t all drank Obamas koolaid…The blame goes to the top….Congress isn’t the president..

          • That River Gal

            Monizame only speaks bumper sticker.

        • monizame

          I know you mean Obama

      • monizame

        Obama is a good campaigner..thats all he has done for 51/2 years…He’s taking down the country and you all are helping him do it..Blame blame blame….

        • nathkatun7

          “He’s taking down the country….”

          Cite one fuckin example to support this claim! Just because you heard Glenn Beck say so does not make it true. Guess what, Glenn Beck has made so much money under President Obama, fooling idiots like you, than he ever dreamed of making.

    • monizame

      Moochelle snubbed him because he stopped her vacations…no funds.

      • That River Gal

        You just revealed yourself as a dittohead.

  • dbtheonly

    Bob,

    The budget was balanced & the deficit dropping in the late 1990s. So much so that there were questions raised about those organizations which are required to keep their money in T-Bills.What happens if they’re aren’t T-Bills?

    Well, short story, a politician decided to run on the idea that, “It’s Your Money, You should Keep It”. See the orange in your chart.

    Then add a couple of “Borrow & Bomb” wars. & “Deficits Don’t Matter” again.

    All of which, I think, is modern history.

    • Badgerite

      It would seem that is true only for people with more than short term memory relating to what they had for lunch. .

      • mrbrink

        Yeah, they just need a year to rewrite the history and pummel our senses with enough images of Founding Father Figure Ronald Reagan Knows Best riding into Moocher Town with Norman Rockwell waving an American flag on a Budweiser horse to say that, yeah, things may have gotten a little out of hand, but they’re sorry, Honey-Sweetie-Baby-America. You know how Daddy gets when he’s had way too much virgin blood to drink. Now go out there, Media, and tell the neighbors your face fell on their fist all night and that you’re sorry for all the trouble you’ve caused. Done and done.

  • Auld_mac

    But you forgot Jesus….