Why Can’t We Admit That Religion Is F***ing Crazy?

FILED TO: Society and Culture

rabbi_plasticThe quote of the day comes from a Facebook commenter to a story that’s making the rounds on the internet right now. It concerns an ultra-orthodox Jewish rabbi who covered himself head-to-toe in clear plastic during a recent commercial flight and apparently remained that way for the entire trip. Speculation is that the self-Saran Wrapping was done to uphold the orthodox tenet requiring men to keep themselves completely separated from women.

The very simple quote in response to the image of a man sitting on a crowded airplane, covered entirely in transparent plastic?

“Respect his beliefs.”

Now I want you to join me in a little thought experiment. I want you to imagine that the guy under the plastic isn’t dressed in the familiar vestures of an orthodox Jew but is instead wearing soiled, beat-up jeans and a dirty shirt while sporting a ratty, unkempt beard and long hair. In other words, what if the man on the plane hadn’t been expressing an extremist religious belief but was just, you know, nuts? Would anyone really be cavalierly demanding that people, particularly the people stuck next to this guy on the plane, “respect his beliefs” and not regard him as a run-of-the-mill whack-job?

I’ve made the argument plenty of times but this is such a perfect example of what I often complain about that I just couldn’t let it pass without saying something. Basically what I’d like to know is this: Why are we expected to respect beliefs that are clearly outlandish and completely divorced from reality simply because those beliefs happen to be the foundation of one faith or another? The simple answer, of course, is that as a society we’ve decided that certain kinds of crazy aren’t crazy at all, and that there’s sanity in numbers. You can get away with just about any kind of behavior that would otherwise be considered unacceptable in civilized society as long as you’re doing it in the name of your god and absolutely if your god happens to be one of the three or four most popular gods on the planet, the ones who won a few rounds of the Mr. Universe Pageant a couple of millennia ago.

But again, why is it necessary, even in the opinion of some self-professed nonbelievers, that the general public show respect and deference to the thought processes that would lead a man to wrap himself in plastic, presumably to avoid touching women and therefore offending God? How about this for a change: It’s not. It’s not necessary at all.

With the exception of those who allow their faith to lead them to do despicable things — those whose behavior isn’t simply eccentric but dangerous — I do my best to respect people who claim to be religious. I respect the people themselves. That doesn’t mean I respect their beliefs, because I don’t. I don’t feel the need to show one ounce of deference to the beliefs of someone who thinks that God listens to his entreaties any more than I would feel the need to show deference to the beliefs of a guy talking to a telephone pole on a street corner who thinks the same thing. Neither of the two has evidence to back up his claims and the only difference between them, really, is that one probably has a roof over his head and isn’t considered crazy by most of society.

The fact is that when you peel away the culturally sanctioned rationale for not eating meat on a Friday, or sitting on a box and covering the mirrors after someone dies, or making sure that a woman’s body is clothed almost completely, what you’re left with is just plain old nuts. And what’s worse is that the rules and restrictions adhered to by the faithful all too often negatively affect people who should be well beyond the jurisdiction of any one particular religion. It’s one thing for someone to make a personal decision not to work on Sunday because he believes his god demands it — it’s another thing entirely for a pharmacist not to dispense the morning after pill for the same reason.

I quite frankly don’t give a damn what your god wants; the rights, privileges, and even whims of living, breathing human beings supersede the requirement you’ve imposed upon yourself not to offend the imaginary friend you talk to before you go to bed every night. The rights of a gay person to get married or of a woman to have an abortion should at no point be considered equal to the “rights” of the faithful to adhere to the regulations imposed by Jesus, Yahweh, Muhammad and so on. Yes, you’re allowed to believe what you want, but when that belief collides with reality, reality shouldn’t be the one forced to submit. In the game of chicken between what’s proven and what can’t be, guess which one has to veer off.

No, a religious belief doesn’t need to be respected just because it’s a religious belief.

Because if you stripped away the religion, guess what a guy wrapped head-to-toe in plastic on an airplane would be?

Just plain, old crazy.

Update: Apparently it’s possible the rabbi had wrapped himself in plastic because the plane was going to be flying over a cemetery. That obviously changes everything. My sincerest apologies.


RELATED: This Republican Believes God is responsible for Major American Military Victories.


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  • Kittycatgirl

    You silly

  • Phase Nonapp

    Its really not their fault. They have probably been indoctrinated since birth into the religion in the same way fundamentalist christians have so they cannot see things any differently. I feel sorry for them more than anything else that they have been brainwashed to such an extent. Having said that if they are causing problems on a flight they should be removed.

  • Ottmar

    Jus’ yer average Jewish nut bar, nothin’ more and nothin’ less. Move on….

  • Steven Palmer

    we all come into the world naked as a child not knowing anything, we all die and nothing is known after that. No one knows any more than anyone else, because no one sees any being that are higher in intelligence, , no proof anyone ever has. Proof is scientific, and by scientific methods, not humans passing stories. So there you have it. No one at any time has ever proven any higher beings of any type, ever. if anyone says they communicate with a higher being they are crazy, lying, or imagining. If they had proof someone would show it, or the being would show it. It takes more faith to not believe in magic. Apparently!

  • Martin

    I’m thinking possibly why would I care.. He could be saving us from something extremely nauseating or it might be they’re in a sort of light duty quarantine to keep from contracting something…People need isolation sometimes… get over it…

  • feskin

    Feskin is not confident that an ultra-orthodox rabbi in a giant plastic bag should be taken as the stand-in for “religion”. And yes, it’s nuts. If it was a guy in jeans and a t-shirt doing it because he was deathly scared of cooties, we’d call him nuts. And we’d let him do it, too. And if we were decent, we’d not make a scene about it.

  • Mike Magnum

    I have a better question. who is she harming.

  • Mark J

    It had to be either a short flight or there had to be a level of ventilation in that plastic bag, otherwise this problem would have permanently fixed itself in flight. I find this bizarre but harmless to me; he’s not imposing his will on others, he just wants to completely cover himself. I would not do anything like this, but I’d rather have this happen than the silliness of someone being unwilling to sit next to someone of a different gender or race; THAT imposes one’s beliefs on others, which isn’t acceptable in a secular society.

  • hallucigenia

    There is a potential in humans for higher psychological development apart from the ego-driven self. Connecting to the Self (higher potential) has been the aim of “schools” (for lack of a better term), that impart the means/methods for achieving Self-development.
    These schools eventually distort the message, and become corrupted, leaving religions in their place. Being critical of religions does not preclude Self-development of a “spiritual” dimension in oneself. In fact, adherence to religious dogma is a major obstacle to development. The lowest form of dogma is that which works to elicit fear or hatred of others. Coercion through fear drives people to commit mass violence (as every religion has demonstrated), or can simply be the means for religions to control the masses.

  • Cap_Curmudgeon

    Religion is inconsistent on a massive scale. Growing up, I was given a strict education as a Roman Catholic. I swallowed it all. As an old man now, I see the folly of it.

    God knows all things, past present and future. We say God can alter events, so we pray for deliverance from sickness and injury, Even so, the instruments of sickness and injury (from tiny disease microbes to great-big drunk drivers) must be parts of God’s plan, known to Him since the beginning of time. He lets it happen, chaos and all, like a spinning top that wanders its way across the floor, bumping into chair legs and careening wildly in another direction.

    God made us in his image. I have bad teeth and I’m color-blind. God may also have bad teeth and be color-blind. How about clubfoot? Mental retardation? The list could be very, very, long but I will stop with those few.

    God made the earth, but the earth is profoundly flawed, with unstable tectonic plates that cause volcanic eruptions, earthquakes and tsunamis. Creation’s mistakes have killed hundreds of thousands of people in a single disaster. Blame Christopher Columbus, blame climate change or blame Jimmy Hoffa but don’t you dare blame God!

    People who respond to such inconsistencies usually cite things that nobody can force them to explain. “God’s Will” and “God’s Plan” are frequent dodges and we don’t need to understand them if we have Faith. Wow — Faith!

    It has been said that “Faith can move mountains.” Good. All ye of faith. please start watching mountains, one mountain apiece. If one of them moves, send a signal and I’ll be right over to check your mountain.

    I don’t mind religion. I just wish it would make some sense. It does not.

  • Gjuro Kladaric

    religion permanently hurts a brain…

  • John Kievlan

    Thanks for so eloquently demonstrating that although religion is crazy, other people are crazy too.

    • Chris

      Lol John.

  • Darrell Thomas

    Just a thought…I can’t say I have a strong opinion either way about the social issues of the day, but after reading this post, I realize something. This article makes the point that certain religious things that are clearly crazy should be exposed for being crazy, but they aren’t accepted in our society because of popular opinion. And then the article uses homosexuality and abortion to make a point. I’m all about everyone having equal rights, but from a rational perspective, one would easily make the argument that both of these examples are contrary to nature themselves (man and women naturally “fit” together, not man and man, and a person ending the life of their offspring in an of itself isn’t “normal.”…i don’t think?!?). I imagine most people wouldn’t like to word it that way, and maybe rightfully so, but if you think about both of those examples in and of themselves, you could say they are both crazy. But they are excepted today…. and ironically, for the exact same reason this author makes his case against religious practices being accepted… because of popular opinion!

  • Darla Doxstater

    The cemetery “reason” is even whackier.

  • The Why? Movement

    Because religion, itself, is not fucking crazy. Fundamentalism is crazy. Religion is understanding that allegories convey underlying truths and that history books are a record of archaic solutions. Fundamentalism is believing that allegories are meant to be taken literally and that history books are meant to function as guides to navigating contemporary life.

  • DocNordic

    Sounds like you have a God problem.

  • Chris

    I don’t think religion is fucking crazy but anything that stems from Judaism is fucking crazy. All of xianity is a damn lie and it just pisses me off that people feed into it.. that’s it. There’s nothing to be saved from but that which we do to ourselves. And then it pisses me off like people won’t get up and be the change they want to be in the world because they think this foolish lie is going to come around and change things for them and that the world is the way it is because God made it that way, no like it’s the way it is because of all of the decisions and actions that people made in the past that got us to now. People just talk about Jesus and how incredible he is how is changing so much stuff in their lives just STFU please you don’t know what you’re saying . And then they leave out all the bad stuff he’s done in the Bible like ordering the Jews to fucking kill people in holy wars and sending out plagues, like I thought he was supposed to love everybody. It’s not even worth arguing. Xianity is a lie and if you call yourself a Christian you’re dumb as shit because if you look back in the book called the Talmud. Your what’s called a Goy and YHVH has no love for you. So saith YHVH himself. The Goy is the Gentile. Meant to be slave to the Jew as so they would not be served by beasts. This is the god from the Old Testament that I’m talking about. The pope one time said “it has served us well this myth of Christ” he said that because the people in power are sitting on huge piles of cash while you slavishly worship a false god. And you refuse to believe me because you have your thumb up your ass. I know my comment won’t change anything however I hope one day we can move on from this lie. It will be called the greatest hoax on humanity.

  • Jake Houarse

    You know Machiavelli theorized that religion would be necessary until fear of prince can replace fear of god, but you would need a strong enough prince. Well I think the government is strong enough thank you. Look at japan, they are unitary sure so have a lot more control but I think america could cope. There’s too many people drilling there beliefs into their children though. It’s so wrong.

  • jimbo spockovich

    Religion…..the root of all evil…..

    Now what do these religous brainwashers tell the younger generation to keep them in line and continue donating MONEY to them. Going to be quite difficult to “cage” the gay people and make them worship a fantasy man who hates them when the law says it is ok to love another of your choice.

    Religion is all about money and stupid people who cannot think for themselves.

    Life is very simple..treat others the way you want to be treated….no invisible fantasy man exists with the threat of eternal torture….

    After 12 years of attempted brainwashing on me.. I still find it amazing how many people believe in a book written by cavemen that contradicts facts and itself over and over.

    If “god” is so supreme why wouldn’t it have written a book to help the human race ..for example medicine and facts about how the universe works..if i were to go back 2000 years with the knowledge of today I would be helping humanity and this fantasy god does nothing but threaten eternal torture to people and allow death and murder and HATE in his name..IT IS INSANE

  • karlmarxsux

    You are more than welcome to.Them your arrogant ,earthly ass is going straight to hell.Have you even read the bible,tried to understand it ?I at least read the Communist MANIFESTO .I’M NO BIBLE POUNDER,BUT I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF RESP[ECT FOR THE BOOK…..BECAUSE I READ WHAT WAS IN IT.YOU people take what is easy for your pea brains to comprehend then get all high on your horse….kinda like you.I was taught to respect other people’s religion.Why don’t you at least read the damn thing before you start ranting and raving.You sound like a blithering idiot.Maybe just maybe the bible may lend some insight as to why you are a fucking Communist.Have a nice day asshole.

    • sgrm8

      There’s some good/ok stuff in the bible. Then there’s A LOT stupid stuff. Then there’s fiction. lol goodbye

  • Tom Huz

    That Bag nonsense is completely insane. No One should be wearing a Plastic Bag over themselves in public, I’m sorry, lets get REAL here… This is Pure Insanity and CHILDISH BEHAVIOR.

    GROW UP… Oh it’s his “religious” belief… 100% Bullshit… Just acting like a Crazy Person.. Drawing Attention to themselves.

    Religious Practices are INSANE. Religious people Are INSANE and they use Religion as the “Excuse” to behave in a way that is pure insanity. YOU know it, I know it. I would have never allowed that on an Airplane. Suffication Anyone? Give me a Fucking Break… How Stupid and silly. Oh it’s his religion? Then DON’T FLY on a PUBLIC AIRPLANE!! Get a PRIVATE FLIGHT or STAY HOME.

    You want to act crazy? then Don’t go out in public!! Lock yourself away and be as crazy as you want but if you go out in public or use Public transportation then you will OBEY The PUBLIC RULES of what is considered Acceptable Behavior!!

  • CandideThirtythree

    Well think about it, they think their god is a father who tells his kids to kill each other…if that is not the ultimate crazy, what is?

  • CandideThirtythree

    “I don’t feel the need to show one ounce of deference to the beliefs of
    someone who thinks that God listens to his entreaties any more than I
    would feel the need to show deference to the beliefs of a guy talking to
    a telephone pole on a street corner who thinks the same thing.”


  • Mike De Fleuriot

    This says everything the article is about.

    Update: Apparently it’s possible the rabbi had wrapped
    himself in plastic because the plane was going to be flying over a
    cemetery. That obviously changes everything. My sincerest apologies.

    You believe in gods, you have a crazy belief system, end of story.

  • alfredo garcia

    Humans have always been religious. We need are strive for wholeness outside of our ego and don’t have anywhere else to turn but religion. But, yes, it is crazy as hell. Total BS.

  • LolaS

    Or….why do we give a sh!t if someone wants to wrap themselves in a plastic bag? If there really is a god, I sure hope he blessed this person with bad gas.

  • 匕丹れ工れ

    I don’t think it’s useful to make fun of people with severe cases of Judaism, let alone those suffering from ultra orthodoxy. These people are clearly in need of mental health counseling. Perhaps an NGO could sponsor a rehabilitation or social reintegration program so that they can rejoin society and live useful lives in the 21st-century. There surely would be no shortage of patients in the Middle East.

  • http://thegrandtangent.com/ Arcanum Arcanorum (虚空)

    Some religions are, typically, crazier than others.

  • Anonymous

    All I have to say is fuck your stupid adding of a URL when I copy and paste. That is irritating as hell.

  • bumboclot

    Crazy? Sure religion is crazy. Does anyone think a guy screaming and yelling and cursing at his television looks sane? No? Well try putting that guy in a football jersey and suddenly no problem. Try talking rationally to both a democrat and a republican during election time. Crazy is too kind a word for that conversation.
    Religion is just a convenient forum for crazy people to express themselves, because pretty much any crime is tolerated within the same religion, and the mindless followers of religion can sympathize with outright stupidity. Heck just look at what Catholic priests are allowed to get away with by their followers.

  • David

    Religion = crazy.
    Scary to see all these brainwashed people.
    The would would be much more peaceful without all the religious people.

  • http://pics.fireflyprops.net/TVIN-2.01.pdf J. Chris Bourdier

    Every time I say that religious belief is both illogical and irrational, I get yelled at — usually by someone behaving illogically and irrationally.

  • Romania DeNiro

    I feel ya on this. So was he wrapped in plastic when he came out his mom’s vagina

  • Jeer

    F* religions they only bring war.

  • Bobbi Tracey

    This article has been re-posted many times, and the first article posted a while back said the rabbi wore the plastic bag because they were flying over a grave-yard which was forbidden in Jewish culture. An article posted a week ago stated that Jews could fly with women, just not seated next to them. Regardless, religion is absolutely crazy and the whole plastic bag situation is the exact reason why people should not be allowed to openly express religion on commercial flights. Seems harsh to say, but I sat next to a Jewish rabbi on a national flight, and he believed that his religion was not one that should be used as an ‘excuse’ to cause hassle while in public situations. He sat next to me on the flight and I’m a woman, and he was so lovely about it!

  • Miguel Dominguez

    How I miss Christopher Hitchens.

  • Paul Howard

    The majority of you are only helping to fulfill prophesy. You all think you are so smart, but you’re not. No one man has all the answers, some may even put plastic over them. This man fears God, and he should just as the rest of you should, but don’t. Take a look around you and at the state of things. Come to the neighborhood where I live and maybe you will see that things are not getting better, they are only going to get worse. Keep bashing and denying God, watch what happens. After all it’s happening all around you, you just can’t see it for what it is. Horses wear blinders.

  • Ray Hamel
  • AllStar

    Catchy ranticle, however, misguided. If somebody wants to wrap himself in plastic to get closer to God, and that’s not hurting anyone else, that’s only his business. While “respect his beliefs” may be the quote of the day, “respect his freedom to hold beliefs” should be the point, but you missed that. Whether or not any of us respect his actual beliefs is irrelevant. Respecting beliefs necessitates discretion which is so easily abused by the corrupt or exercised improperly.

  • Isaac Epstein

    Chez, I’m sure the religious person on that airplane would have a lot to say about how you lead your secular life. He would consider it as normal as you consider his. The difference is he doesn’t bitch and moan like a three year old about it. He just goes about his business. You’re picking on someone who just wants to be left alone. You’re a bully.

  • Jennifer West

    But what did it hurt anyone if he wanted to wear a bag? This article attempts to make a good point about the fact that people/groups do get away with things under the guise of being a religion that would otherwise not be acceptable – but why does it matter if someone eats meat or not or wants to wrap themselves in plastic? If they are not harming/hurting/inhibiting/infringing you, then who cares what people want to do with their personal lives? Let people be nuts, let people be cookie, let people have separate beliefs and leave each other alone.

  • disqus_UYD5fQjiyR

    Is this man hurting any person or any animal with this action based on belief? Looks like he isn’t. So his right to his belief and action should be accepted. Whether you respect it or not is irrelevant. Whatever he is dressed like inside that bag is also irrelevant.

  • Deanna Szuter

    If I were very wealthy, I would start an Airline called Fly Fundie. Limited flights per day, but, I only cater to the religious fanatics. One flight per day to their destination for each of the Fundie groups. Premium priced tickets for the service of being flown in a plane with only “your people”, your dietary requirements, anything.. on board. LOL!

  • Charlie

    I fail to see how this is an issue. So some guy wraps himself in plastic? So what? His choice is affecting no-one but himself. He isn’t being rude, he isn’t demanding other people accommodate him, he’s just quietly dealing with the issues his religion has presented him. Yes, it’s ridiculous to us, but hey, if he can deal with sweating in his own body odour for an entire flight, the least we can do is shrug it off.

  • Linnsey

    He’s not bothering anyone, why not just let him be?

  • alex_a

    As long as he’s willing to make an idiot out of himself, and wrap himself up in plastic/paper/burka, I don’t have a problem with that. It takes all kinds, and this is not more or less moronic than, say, huge disks people insert into their earlobes.

    It is when they insist on other people behaving in a way to satisfy their insanity, when I start having a problem with it. But, as long as their personal choices don’t make anyone else suffer … good luck.

  • Morris Rezkalla

    Maybe guy likes to smell his own farts, cant you people just respect that!!!! :-)

    • Morris Rezkalla

      I see im about 2 years late for this thread :-))))

  • Benjamin Rogers

    So… Everyone must conform to your way of thinking and if they deviate at all, they are labeled as “crazy” – even when wrapping themselves as a form of isolation *hurts no one else*? You’re an idiot, Chez. Plain and simple. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that *you* are the lunatic who expects everyone on the planet to share your views – or be institutionalized. Why do you feel a need to evangelize the world to match your viewpoints? Have you often desired to force your viewpoints down the throats of others and … oh, I don’t know … post vitriolic, acerbic blogs about it? How long have you craved the control of others? How long have you tried to use manipulation to get others to toe the line you’ve drawn in the sand? Have you done any research into the severe psychological imbalances associated with that sort of behavior? And, on a more colloquial level, have you ever considered the point that “it takes someone crazy to notice crazy behavior”? I strongly encourage you to check into some therapy – and not just to try to find validation for how you feel, but to truly root out these deep, ingrained psychological imbalances you’ve displayed with this blog.

  • Guest

    Why didn’t they get thrown off the plane, and fined for delaying the flight? When did USA become a religious state?

  • Doy Bowers

    Definitely a Good Read!!!!

  • KK4CCP

    as for the update at the end of this article, still… wrapping yourself in plastic because you are flying over a cemetery or sitting next to a woman is insane. He really just needs to sit in his bag, tie it up tight and breathe real deep many times.

  • Eileen Kerrigan

    Well, y’know, stay sealed in plastic long enough, and you won’t have to worry about being seated next to a woman anymore.

    Unless, of course, the person on the next mortuary slab over is a woman …

  • Paul Yotsuba


  • Cat

    This is absolutely mental, but definitely better than delaying flights because they won’t sit next to women, or speak to female air stewards, etc. He’s not interfering with anyone else, the only person he’s really inconveniencing is himself, and that’s how religious freedom works. If it doesn’t interfere with anyone else you can pretty much do and believe whatever you want.

  • Scottie Em

    Why does it “obviously change everything” if it’s because of a cemetery? If the argument is that religion = superstition = crazy, why does it matter if the bag is to “protect” him from women or from a cemetery that is thousands of feet below?

  • Jen

    I don’t get it, clearly THIS MAN is crazy….that doesn’t mean religioun is crazy. If he weren’t religious, he’d be a crazy guy “wearing soiled, beat-up jeans and a dirty shirt while sporting a ratty, unkempt beard and long hair”….
    I don’t see religioun here.

  • trilobytegames

    “When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called Religion.” — Robert M. Pirsig

  • Pierre Savoie

    Female flight-attendant: “Now I will demonstrate to you the use and inflation of your flotation-device…oh, wait, I see you already have one: your FAT HEAD!”

  • MrBiggunz28 .

    I think anything is truly possible. We can’t prove or disprove anything….. aliens abducting people sounds a little crazy yet the universe is so big it seems impossible that we are alone. Bigfoot sounds crazy but some sort of creature probably roamed the earth at some point…. i think everything & anything could be true or untrue….. as scientists they say they need proof but some believe in theories like the big bang…. unless it can truly be proved or disproved who really knows. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs…. i personally just keep an open mind as something that hasn’t been proven or disproven than who knows….. it really makes you think doesn’t it? Where is everbody!
    Kevin Nash

  • Gearmoe

    We are much closer now than ever. The WWW has brought science and information. Think, it’s only been 10~12 years a great number of USA has had decent WWW access. In 30 years it will be very difficult for current religions to seem anything other than the myths they’ve always been.

    • Christine Loughead

      God I hope you’re right

  • barry waterfield

    Religion is a social control, that was its original purpose, in other words’ power, and so many people have suffered under religion, that the world deserves a rest. Currently it is the gays and single women that are the target, in the past it has been old women and even black cats, indeed in England during the 1500’s ministers would encourage their ‘flock’ to throw black cats off the church steeple because ‘ they were the devils familiar.’ There is no rationale, no logic, nothing provable behind any religion, and it has to be that way to keep the faithful in line. America in particular, suffers from a religious fever as strong as Islam in some southern states. From time to time I have pondered whether a brain abnormality lies behind the activities of some of the more extreme leaders but frankly I just don’t know. The only thing I would advise, to both young and old is, steer well clear, it is infectious for some people.

  • rideon

    Yep. Most would think persons who believe in superior “Grey” aliens that are amongst us, manipulating behind the scenes of government, that walk amongst us with cloaking devices, and that cloak their ships to be essentially unseen and invisible, and engage in mass indoctrination/brain washing to be crazies…yet people of “faith”, believe in superior/omnipotent beings, supernatural creatures, demons, and angels…that walk amongst us invisably, and engage in indoctrination/brain washing of children at an early age to blindly believe in an God/Devil/Angles/Demons “faith” its called, belief in that which cannot be proved…what’s the difference?

    The best part is they try to prove it be twisting the law of entropy (third law of thermodynamics).

    Then you got the crazies who believe that different races are because of evil/sin, that if you truly believe in the one “true” God, you miraculously become “white” (Mormons).

    If enough mentally ill people become the majority, then do they cease to be mentally ill, and become the normals, and the “normals” then become the mentally ill?

    Religion only works on those who are easily manipulated, and that are gullible (thus children are prime targets).

    How many Christians get offended if you use the word “Hell” ? (my son actually got sent to principals office for this “offense”). Would they be offended if someone said “what the Hades!”, probably not, but if you say “what the Hell”! They get all bent, and offended. The words hell and hades mean the exact same thing though.

    Hell is short for ” Hel” the Goddess of the Underworld in Norse mythology, same as Hades in Greek Mythology. The daughter of Loki, son of the Father of the Gods Odin.

    Hell is not in any Judaic/Islamic/christian scripture, and Sheol was never a place of fire and brimestone, suffering and unendurable pain. Christians/Religious people (aka “Spiritual”) are idiots and crazies…but since they are the majority, they become the normals…

    If a deeply devote religious person heard voices (because they are crazies), that told them that your son was evil, the Antichrist, and the voices told them that they were God’s instrument, his holy hand on earth, that your evil seed/demon child need to die…what do you think would happen?

    Don’t laugh, this same thing has happened throughout the ages…witch hints, crusades, middle east, etc.

    Religious people are dangerous crazies.

    (Image) Hel aka Goddess of the Underworld Hell

    • sgrm8

      “what the hell” is like a language thing though… it doesn’t have anything to do with the literal meaning lol, it’s just a language thing

  • invisiblegodsdon’tscareme

    humanity needs to move beyond religion. end of story.

    • sgrm8

      in many ways like lol yeah

  • Azia

    Allowing dangerously insane people to roam around in public clearly endangers the public. We insist on locking up drunk drivers, rapists, and murderers, why not the religiously insane?

  • CL Nicholson

    I’ve lived in LA and New York for the last 10 years of my life, and I can honestly say most orthodox Jews (or Orthodox anything, for that matter) can seem rather weird to an outsider, but ultimately harmless.

    Who am I to judge? I’ve seen plenty of crazier people walking around Santa Monica or in Greenwich Village who don’t have faith as a crutch for their odd behavior.

    Jesus, possibly the most influential of all religious philosophers (mostly due to European expansion and empire, but whatever) would probably agree with Chez, the avowed atheist. The rabbinical law exists to remind people of God and holiness, but its also not a license to act like a fool in public (Matthew 6:5) or to treat non-believers like trash (Luke 10:29-37). Jesus would either talk to this dude and tell him to tone it down or openly mock him (Jesus insults people way more than most pastors preach about) for going a wee bit overboard.

    I’m probably one of the more religious people on this message board. Do I think religion is innately crazy? On some level, I can that agree faith calls for one to believe despite not having direct evidence (hence it’s not really faith) but no, I obviously don’t think religion is absurd. A religion itself isn’t crazier than any other human endeavor. People are crazy and will use almost anything to justify their craziness.

    • Sean Lee Walthour

      so u talked to those crazy ppl walking around and confirmed their lack of religion? very interesting.

      this just sealed ur fate to crazyland

      “I’m probably one of the more religious people on this message board. Do
      I think religion is innately crazy? On some level,

      (you agree its somewhat fundamentally irrational, good, u do have some sense.)

      I can that agree faith calls for one to believe despite not having direct evidence,hence it’s not really faith

      ( this like saying water calls for hydrogen and oxygen, but its not really water)

      but no, I obviously don’t think religion is
      absurd. A religion itself isn’t crazier than any other human endeavor.
      People are crazy and will use almost anything to justify their

      ( u just summed up your own argumentright here…. bat. shit. crazy )

  • asher2789

    Why does it matter if he was flying over a cemetery? He’s still crazy.

  • Kirk

    Chez, thank you, thank you, thank you! I hope life is treating you well my friend.

  • Jacqui Arias

    What’s really crazy to me is going through all these bullshit rituals in the eye of the public and as to use as a weapon over other’s heads while at the same time living, and doing some very immoral and down right illegal activities…religion has proven to be good for 2 things, for killing those who don’t agree w/the fairy tale, and to control the one’s the were left behind to be enslaved.

  • Cpt_Justice

    Interesting how you pick on something silly (to you), bit it’s something that DOES NOT & CANNOT affect YOU, & demand that he stop. & why? Because “reasons”. And it’s a further shame that you refuse to understand exactly how the cemetery actually did explain everything.

    • That River Gal

      It. Is. ALL. Silly.

    • Sean Lee Walthour

      are u on heavy drugs?

  • citizen144

    Not only ready to admit it. Ready to testify to it in court. Too many people I’ve cared about in the past have been infected with this obviously transmittable disease. Some peoples immune systems are weak, some peoples brains are weak and susceptible.

  • hutzpappy

    why didn’t he suffocate? one less degenerate to take up our precious oxygen.

    • hutzpappy

      oh and…

      religion is created by people… thus it’s rather a tautological reference?

    • Collin237

      You realize the impossibility of someone being covered in plasting and not suffocating. And yet you refuse to admit the obvious conclusion. — This is a hoax. There isn’t anyone in that bag.

      You and Chez both — you’re accepting something impossible just because it furthers a talking point. If the linked article weren’t tied in to religion, you’d have no problem identifying the rumormongers as the degenerates. This is what prejudice is — when your disagreement with a group of people gets so strong that you let a hoax pass as truth without even realizing it.

      • Johnny__Fever

        1) people of this religious persuasion actually do act like this all the time, it’s not a hoax

        2) even if it was, substitute any other nonsense the deeply religious engage in that you wish, and the point of the article still stands

        My main disagreement with religious groups of people is so strong , in part , because they let a hoax pass as truth without even realizing it.

  • Gregory J Santollo

    Religion is crazy…..

  • Steve

    If you really think the truth claim for the existence of a god is equivalent to the teapot one, then you are a teapot yourself.

    I can see why you wrote the article. You really think you are right. Try getting off you prideful, pompous, subjective horse, and realize that your opinion is not the only one.

  • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

    That ESL class is apparently paying off.

  • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

    Stop trying to argue logic on this. You can’t win. There isn’t a plane of existence where you’ll debate faith from a logical perspective and win.

    • Steve

      Please don’t be a hypocrite, as we all live by faith in things that cannot be argued by logic or proven by “science”.

      Logic has it’s shortcomings in every discipline in life.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=806308057 Sam Chapman

        @ Steve, you sir are full of **it. Religious apologists??? Nothing more than hawkers for an iron-age goat herder religion. I’ll trust reality and logic any day over the nonsense of the bible. Be careful where you sit, Steve; a woman who’s been menstruating may have sat there within the last seven days (Leviticus 15: 19-30). Apologists indeed!!

        • Steve

          How’s this for logic.

          If all life started by time and randomness, then you are nothing but a worthless cosmic accident with no purpose in life except what you decide to create in your own little orbit. Sorry, but it’s true. Read the works of any honest atheists (nietzsche, etc), and they admit life is meaningless. All is meaningless and chasing the wind. What’s the point, honestly, I’d love to know.

          As far as reality, please show me one example of the following (repeatable scientific experiments please):

          1. Life coming from non-life.
          2. Something coming from nothing.
          3. A car that was created by time and chance.
          4. A half-man/half-monkey.

          And please, choose one verse, without any context and dismiss the whole book. You are truly brilliant. I am so sick of people flinging around the word ‘logic’ like they have somehow reached the epitome of wisdom and knowledge. No offense, but no one knows all, and no one, even those who study logic daily know all.

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            How is this for actual logic: Life didnt start or began, its eternal, meaning without beginning nor end. BRUCE LEE was an atheist n he never claimed life was MEANINGLESS, nor do I. quit putting words in our mouths plz…1. is already refuted, 2. is #1 repackaged, which has been refuted. 3. and 4. are hilariously false, we know WHO created the car… millions of those creators use them everyday. and 4 is retarded.
            life is not based on evidence and faith, only our understandings. life is solely based on existence.

            1. a cheating spouse is irrelevant to this argument
            2.same goes for 2,3,4 and 5….

            you are done

        • Steve

          Also, since you live your life by reality and logic, please defend yourself and list these inarguable logical proofs, and bits of reality that are so overwhelmingly obvious that other dumb people like me fail to see.

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            here’s an inarguable, logical proof.. TIME and SPACE are eternal axioms that CANNOT be CREATED

      • Sean Lee Walthour

        nonsense. those disciplies in life u speak of, actually exist, there is evidence for the,. nothing wrong with faith in that. im not certain but i have faith i wont be homeless tomorrow nor ext week, what i dont have faith in is, a imaginary god making sure im not evicted. my hard work n dilligence will see to that end

  • JustAskin’

    Just to clarify, ghost hunters, mediums, paranormal activity, Yeti, Sasquatch, Chupacabra – all fall into this crazy category, yes?

    • bluedolphin14

      I think all of the above may have slightly more real world evidence to support them than most religions do… Just saying…

  • Kathy

    Excellent Article. Thanks Chez. This message needs to be repeated more widely and more often. There are millions who feel this way and yet they are compelled to hide any criticism of religion. That is the tyranny that non-religious people still live under. Go to a small town and listen to the Christian prayers at city council meetings, giant Christian crosses in public parks and pictures of Jesus in elementary schools. Only the very brave or foolish would voice a complaint. The deep hatred of the non-religious individual by the church is rarely disguised or restrained, throughout history and still today. Religion should never be “majority rule.”
    Support the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

    • Collin237

      If they say something bad about nonbelievers, or do something bad to nonbelievers, that’s hate. But that’s not what you’re saying. You’re saying that symbols are hateful simply because they represent something you don’t believe. If you don’t believe them, they have no power over you.

      You’re right; religion should not be majority rule. Claiming your own freedom is being violated by other people’s freedom of expression should never be actionable, regardless of whether you’re religious. And having to suppress your feelings about others’ feelings is not tyranny; it’s a two-way street which when held up by both ends prevents tyranny.

      • asher2789

        Separation of church and state specifically forbids the government from establishing a religion (establishment clause – first amendment). That would cover all public buildings and public servants to not force a prayer before a town board meeting and it would also prohibit the display of religion (crosses in public schools).

      • Sean Lee Walthour

        Bullsheet! If i have to suppress my feelings/thoughts as a nonbeliever, and the believers dont, that is precisely tyrannical. a true two way street designed to prevent such a thing, would state that both the non and the religious need be suppressed… nice try tho

        • Ann Thrope

          Oh, please. The repression of every giggle you want to emit does NOT rise to the level of tyranny. You sound like a Christian who thinks that, because they can’t make a show of praying in public, and force others to join them, he is being persecuted. Get over yourself. The man in the bag is silly, but he isn’t tyrannizing you. Your suppressing the urge to ridicule him is evidence of you being an adult, not of you being a victim.

      • Heywood Jablowmi

        My tax dollars should not be spent on crosses in parks or Jesus in schools.

  • http://twitter.com/ThePosieParker Posie Parker

    When one relies upon old scripture above common sense for their actions and beliefs then “crazy” is a good a word as any. Religion is crazy, ask any Jew or Christian what they think of Scientology or Hari Krishna. It’s funny that all religions claim they know the “truth” and look upon other religion with judgemental eyes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.latona David Latona

    Perfect commentary on the absurdity of religion… Chez, you’re not a dick (in this case), you’re fucking spot-on.

  • Janean Stepp

    I agree. I am a church elder, and I agree that religion is crazy. I think the world might be a much better place without it at this point. What if we all believed we only have this one life to live instead of focusing on what may or may not happen afterward? What if instead of living in fear because of what may or may not anger some invisible being we actually tried to be rational when deciding what is right and wrong? What if we were kind to one another and believed in loving our neighbor because it’s just the right thing to do, and not because Jesus or whoever you believe in said so? I belong to a church because I found a community that I feel comfortable in, but the truth is that I don’t really think religion in and of itself is a good thing. I think it is far more often a tool used to hurt than anything else. I don’t know if there is a God or an afterlife – but if there is I’m pretty sure He/She/It is really angry at the things He’s given credit/blamed for.

    • Bob

      Are you still with that church?

      • Janean Stepp

        Nope. I’m sure that’s not surprising. I was sort of at a turning point when I wrote that.

        • Jarhead6541

          Welcome back, Hon. Reality missed you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.w.davoll John Walter Davoll

    Hey, it’s so much fun watching the right-wing’s infighting, but you know what would be more fun? Starting some infighting of our own! Let’s start off by calling all religious belief “crazy.” “Plain, old nuts.” Never mind all those people that somehow manage to have faith AND left-wing values AND manage to not defecate in their pants while wearing their tin hats each day. Lets treat each other with as much disrespect as the right wing has shown us!


    I’m sorry, but I’m a Democrat and a pastor and it is really confusing to me when people on the right tell me I’m not a true Christian and people on the left call me a lunatic. Thanks, everybody! I’ll just shut the hell up, would that be okay?

    • http://twitter.com/bubblegenius Bubble Genius

      You don’t have to shut up, and you are free to practice your religion. We have Amendments to protect both of those things. But our speech is also protected in that we are allowed to comment on our own observations of religion.

      Y’know who gets a tough time here in the USA? Atheists. My goodness, the things people say about us.

      • http://www.facebook.com/john.w.davoll John Walter Davoll

        I’m free to be a Christian? Thank you so much. Can I talk about how the life teachings of Jesus (and yes, his death and resurrection) have influenced my progressivism? Oh, I’m a nutjob? Thanks, I feel so free. I guess since atheists have been marginalized in the past, they now are allowed to marginalize others and that will make everything all better.

        I hate it when we emulate the worst aspects of the right wing. Maybe while commenting on your own observations of of religion, we can take the high road and do it in a way doesn’t alienate each other. Or maybe in this new era that’s impossible.

        • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

          I agree that it’s necessary to be wary about demonizing those who stand with you simply because you have a disagreement or two. You have to look at the big picture. That said, I have an issue not simply with faith but with the larger question of why we’re never supposed to acknowledge that faith is somewhat crazy by logical standards. I’m not going to avoid writing about something I feel strongly about simply because, hey, there’s John Walter Davoll, who I’ll bet is a really good guy and who happens to share a lot of my political views but he’s religious and there are probably others like him so I’d better not get near that subject. I said from the very beginning that I can respect a person who believes in God without respecting that belief itself and I’m betting you’d fall nicely into that category. If you take offense to the fact that I think faith by its very nature is irrational, there’s not much I can do about that aside from never bringing this up, and that’s out of the question. You don’t get special dispensation — but make no mistake: You’re also not being personally persecuted. I’m assuming you’re a member of one of the most accepted and powerful religions on the planet — in the big picture nobody’s ganging up on you.

          • Steve

            Please tell everyone these “logical standards” that you talk so much about?

            I’m sure the whole world would love how you have concluded that there is no god.

          • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

            I don’t have to. You have to prove his existence. And you can’t. You can be as smug as you want, in the end it amounts to nothing because you have nothing. Now, if you have nothing else, Steve — and you don’t — feel free to continue to believe whatever nonsense you’d like, just don’t do it here.

          • Steve

            No one can prove the existence of a god, any more then you can prove anything in life. Life is based largely on evidence, of which there is plenty pointing to a creator.

            1. Life comes from life in 100% of the cases I’ve seen.
            2. A complex creation points to a creator.
            a. Imagine I tell you that my wrist watch was created by randomness, time, and chance. You would think I was crazy.
            3. Something does not come from nothing.

          • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

            Your logic, again, is nonsense. But you’re never going to accept that so this is where this stops: with you continuing to believe you’re right when you’re actually wrong. So long, Steve.

          • Steve

            And you continue to fail to provide any logic yourself, and instead choose to live your life according to the teapot, which you actually think is logical proof. It’s a truth statement, nothing more…please look up the definition of the words you are so freely spouting out. Continue living your worthless, cosmic-accident, of a life Chez. Oh, I’m sorry, you evolved higher order single-cell organism, yes you do have purpose. Comical.

          • ssj

            So where did god come from?

          • ceakin

            First, your theory requires your god to be created from nothing, or exist beyond time and space, which destroys your own logic. 2nd, let’s assume you were correct, that there is no alternative other than there to be a creative force behind our existence. This still does not fulfill any of your religious positions, No religion stops at the statement…There must be a creator. Oh no. Religions go far beyond that to claim the steps of creation, the personality and desires of the creation, the reason of creation, divine interventions from said creator, the number of creators, desires and punishments of the creator, and life after creation. ALL of that, even when if we grant you the need for a creative force, is STILL COMPLETE SPECULATION. There could just as easily be a million gods, each with their own gods, and us simply an ant farm in their bedroom, All the additional claims are still completely contrived.

          • http://www.facebook.com/john.w.davoll John Walter Davoll

            So it’s alright for person A to treat person B’s beliefs with disrespect if person B is a part of the largest belief system on the planet? Got it.

            But you know what? Forget it. You’re right. Faith is irrational. it’s the assurance of things not seen. it is hope in the face of despair. It is lighting a candle in pitch darkness, Frederick Buechner said it is whistling in the dark. It cannot be measured nor can it be understood through rationality. It is dangerous to many. So in the end, I accept your assessment of me. I am a fool. But I’ll remain this fool till I die.

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            “It cannot be measured nor can it be understood through RATIONALITY”
            (you actually wrote those words, but ur offended by being called IRRATIONAL? that IS crazy smh

          • sgrm8

            Lol you’re delusional sry

        • ceakin

          We are standing in a room. I say there is a monster in the room. You say there is no evidence of that. Do you consider us both on equal footing in our claims? No, I don’t think both sides always deserve equal reverence. At some point, standard reason and logic requires me to evidence my point. If we can’t agree on whether or not there really is a monster, which seems a reasonable perameter, like 1+1=2, then there is no level of agreement upon which people can ever hope to interact. There is no reality.

  • http://twitter.com/CitizenObservr OccupyYourLocalMedia

    Religion gets its crazy from people. People ARE VERY crazy and Religion is just a convenient excuse for the most crazy. On the other hand, some people have worked very hard in the name of their faith to help others eat, get treatments, and have some semblance of a life. It depends on the person wielding the religion I suppose.
    Now if you will excuse me, I saw someone wearing clothing of blended fabrics and I just bought a sack of rocks…

    • hutzpappy

      so, people can eat bibles?

    • Azia

      Religion is also the cause of numerous wars, is at the root of most discrimination and violence, and is used as a means for these people to further their crimes.

      • Sean Lee Walthour

        Their god would be the first racist lo… After all, he told satan he was inferior to adam, i woulda left that dude n started my own thing too… he seems to always do to his own creations what he doesnt want them to do, because he says its wrong to do.. but yet, its right when HE does it…..you hit the nail right on the head. its not just used to justify evil behavior, it was designed specifically for it

      • karlmarxsux

        Banks and GOVERNMENTS are the cause of numerous wars Einstein.

    • Sean Lee Walthour

      what about when the religion itself is in violation of morality? Cant just say oh well the slave traders are GUILTY but the bible is OKAY, when JOEL 3:8 for example has The LORD himself “selling people” to other nations.. People can do good with or WiTHOUT religion, which means religion is unneccessary :-)

    • George Servais

      One doesn’t need religion to accomplish what decent human beings should do for each other. Most are as dumb as the bag of rocks they want to throw at us sinners. Yes, feed the hungry and make them listen to the ramblings of bronze age, superstitious, desert dwelling, goat herding, genocidal narcissists. Yay religion.

    • Runawaygeek

      I think just as people are Crazy, people are good, and they would have worked hard to help others with or without religion.
      If i had to balance the books mind, i would chose to eradicate religion, more have died in the name of it than have been helped or saved.

  • Jp

    This “article” is somewhat weird. You seem to have a firm belief that every religion is wrong based on the fact that they can’t show evidences of what they claim about the “supernatural world” (or whatever we want to call it). The thing is that your own criteria of what is an “evidence” isn’t shared by everyone.

    Now imagine you travel to some country where the vast majority of the population embrace a certain religion where it is expected that men where men are expected to have their head shaved and have a green symbol painted on their forehead to avoid offense the gods (I’m making this totally fiction to avoid getting into any stereotype). What would you do? Would you conform? Why on earth would the members of this community show any respect for your weird belief that none of the gods exist? Why wouldn’t they throw you in the river to avoid attracting a huge punishment from the gods above? Do you have any evidences that these gods do not exist and won’t punish their country because you’re just a tourist?

    It’s all slippery slope from there. Thinking that God exists is a belief, thinking that he doesn’t is a belief.

    If a friend tells me that he will not sleep with his girl friend before marriage because that’s what the bible tells, that’s fine. If he tells me that Jesus whisper to his ears or appear to him frequently to yell at him when it’s getting to “hot” between him and his girlfriend, I’ll send him for an examination… The difference between mental illness and religion is relatively easy to draw in *most* cases…

    • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

      I’m not sure my first comment on this went through so if I repeat myself I apologize. That said, Google “Russell’s Teapot.” It explains why the burden of proof is on the faithful. That God exists and that he doesn’t are in no way equal beliefs because it’s incumbent upon someone stating a belief for which there’s no evidence to prove his or her case. Also, re-read that last paragraph of yours. Think about how ridiculous that is. You’re saying that it’s not crazy to adhere to the demands of a 2,000-year-old book — a book, by the way, which claims that a guy rose from the dead and now can hear your thoughts and decide where you’re going after you die — but it’s crazy to believe that you’re actually hearing from God. It’s not crazy to talk to God and believe that he speaks to you in ephemeral ways but it’s crazy to believe that he’s ACTUALLY talking to you. See how, well, crazy that is? It’s like that whole rapture thing from a couple of years ago. Everyone thought Pastor Harold Camping was nuts because he claimed to know the actual date of the rapture, but no one thinks it’s nuts that millions of people believe the rapture actually is going to happen at one point. The only thing that made Camping cross the line from sane to insane was that he’d picked a date. Again — crazy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joel.kaemmerlen Joel Kaemmerlen

    i agree with some of the sentiment in this. it’s an interesting thing. but it would be more effective to go at it from a place of curiosity and love than with, oh let’s say, fire and brimstone? what harm is this guy really doing? the blatantly offensive speech within this article only perpetuates a separation between supposedly “2 types of people”. rational and irrational. do people who write these kinds of things have any hopes of bringing people together? it certainly can’t help to demonize one another. i feel some of the practices of major religions are nearly unbearable, like genital mutilation and much of the woman’s rights stuff is abominable. but to demonize someone for ANY practice is far more likely to perpetuate their behavior than change it. if i pray to an imaginary friend before i go to bed and it makes me a better human being, what harm am i doing?! so what?! the fact that we give someone who’s religious certain access to behavior that we deny to another is fascinating. it would be better to be fascinated, not to write an article that presumes you got it all figured out. none of us do! but we get to figure it out. together.

    • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

      I specifically said that you’re entitled to believe whatever you want. But here’s the thing and here’s why it matters what you believe: First of all, your beliefs inform your actions. In other words, you don’t simply believe something — you act on that belief whether you know it or not, and if you believe something completely irrational that can lead you to do irrational things that impact others. Second, the truth — meaning that which is supported by empirical evidence, the same evidence we demand in every situation other than any discussion of religion — is the yardstick by which we measure reality. If we don’t have an at least functionally common yardstick as a society then everything descends into chaos. People can make up any story they want and call it the truth. That’s what faith-based religion is and why it presents a problem.

      • http://www.facebook.com/joel.kaemmerlen Joel Kaemmerlen

        Thank you for your reply! However, i think that valuing rationality over everything else is just as bad as valuing faith over everything else. science has brought us a million atrocities as has religion. Both have also brought us countless acts of good. It has a lot to do with where the heart is, and I’ll take someone who believes something ludicrous and acts kindly than someone who thinks very rationally as they implement fascism, to use an easy go-to example. I’m curious as to what your beliefs are, and how they might impact your own actions, given the disrespectful way you are speaking towards others; even the way you finish your article comes off as snarky and condescending, obviously using sarcasm to insinuate your own superiority on those who differ.
        Personally, growing up in an extremely Jewish world, and having many bad experiences within that community, I could have very easily become a hateful person. But I think it’s really important to be able to distinguish different actions and different people. It’s your responsibility as a journalist to do that, now more than ever. The way most Americans seem to think of Islam is colored by the actions of a minority of Muslims committing atrocious acts, and the media has so much to play in that, as most of our Muslim brothers and sisters live in peace and love.

        It is so easy for the weird and negative actions of people to grab our attention, and for us to simplify and generalize them is natural. It is just as easy for all the good acts to go unnoticed. I see this article as perpetuating misunderstanding. I’m not diluted; I don’t think that everyone getting together and drinking tea will solve it if we just talk about our feelings. HA! But similarly, writing something like this only serves to divide people, color others with different beliefs as being ridiculous, even when they serve no harm on others. You have to distinguish between things people do that are destructive to others and things they do that don’t even effect anyone else. To sweep them together is to mislead your readers to a place of being condescending towards others for no good reason. Doesn’t that seem a dangerous ideology that could lead to dangerous actions?

        • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

          First of all, I’m a dick. We’ve established that. But it’s interesting that you bring up my supposed responsibility as a journalist, because technically a journalist has only one responsibility and it’s not to make the world a better place. While I’m certainly not always successful at it, the job of a journalist is to be beholden only to the truth. I don’t worry about whether faith does good or bad — there’s little doubt it can do both — only about whether it’s the truth. Since even the most commonly accepted religions of the world espouse beliefs which can’t be proven, I see no problem with disregarding them. If this is offensive or condescending to you and you think I should be more understanding in the name of peace and harmony, guess what? That was the entire point of this piece. To question why that is.

          The original point was to question why religious beliefs are separate from all others in our society because we’re expected to respect them at almost all costs. To your point, even when we spoke of Islam following 9/11, we were obligated to make sure to mention that it was a “religion of peace” and that a vast majority of Muslims aren’t dangerous — which is of course true — rather than concentrating on the the fact that 19 men of PERFECT FAITH committed an unspeakable atrocity in the name of a 100% lunatic belief. Think about how batshit that is: We had to make sure to show deference and respect to a belief system that even a child would know was nonsense if he or she wasn’t led to believe through cultural acceptance that it was to be given credence.

          I’m sorry but I don’t worry about whether or not I’m insulting a person’s religious beliefs because those beliefs — one more time for the cheap seats — aren’t based in anything approaching reality. Again, I can respect a person who’s religious but I don’t have to respect the religion. And again, my point was to stand against everything you’re advocating for, which is to treat all beliefs, particularly religious beliefs, as being worthy of consideration because then we’ll all be able to hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

          • http://www.facebook.com/joel.kaemmerlen Joel Kaemmerlen

            it’s not journalist’s duty to make the world a better place any more than it’s an artist’s job to make sure the tweens are getting positive role models. however, what a journalist chooses to report on has bearing about what a reader can glean. For example, if I were to report nothing but the terrible murders that black people commit, and report nothing else on the behavior of black people, that may lead the people who ingest my information to certain obvious and incorrect conclusions about black people. It’s admittedly hard not to supply stories that counter those, because a story about someone who went to a soup kitchen every week their whole lives just isn’t as interesting as them blowing a bunch of people to shreds on a Wednesday afternoon. It’s unfortunate, but that’s just the way it is.
            Understanding this fact, and thereby choosing what you put out there, especially in the wake of what else is out there, is something to take into consideration. If you’re a dick, you’re a dick. I can’t break you from that own sense of identity you’ve chosen any more than you can shake me from my kindness. However, coloring others with broad strokes, such as myself as being someone who would EVER enjoy singing Kumbaya is more than a silly waste of time. It’s perpetuating the same type of stubborn craziness that you claim to hate, the same stubbornness that is killing us as a species; I think it would be productive to see the commonality between those who infuriate you and the things about yourself that may be frustrating. i say knowing that doing so can provide a little relief and understanding on this planet. a really crazy planet that tends to fill me with rage, too. all my best to you!

          • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

            You’re arguing context and I’ve already provided that. I said that religion can be used for good or bad. The thing is, how it’s used is, again, irrelevant. Whether religious belief fuels despicable acts or noble ones doesn’t make the belief itself any more in rooted in fact. I’ll use this example again: Plenty of kids believe in Santa Claus and it can keep them on the straight and narrow under penalty of getting coal in their stocking for Christmas. Guess what? The believe in Santa does some good — but it doesn’t make Santa real. By the way, if you were an adult and you said you believed in Santa — and you were serious — guess what people would think of you?

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            problem is, without religion, we deal with man and his systems that can be altered if found in error. WIT religion, instead there are commands from the SOURCE which are in error, that can not be altered because belief has made these falsehoods seem true. In lamens, you cant plead for respect for beliefs when the fundamental problem IS those beliefs. i refuse to respect the belief that a God can sell people in slave auctions, simply because he made them. Thos same religions are innately DISrespectful towards those who dont believe.. therefore, returning the favor is all but the only course of action. Aint nobody smackin me in the face, then telling me i shouldnt hit them back

          • Steve

            “What sorrow for those who are wise in their own eyes and think themselves so clever.”

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            “What sorrow for those who are wise in their own eyes and think themselves so clever.” right back at u

          • Christine Loughead

            Im sick of bending ” respectfully ” to the religious simply because they out number us. I have to go see a dying christian in a few days who will probably try and force a prayer on me. Everyone will be looking at me to see if Im going to deny a dying woman’s request .I have an interview to adopt a child in foster care and the interviewer is very religious , do I lose the child because I state I’m an atheist ? Or do I avoid it ? Or do I have to pretend I’m christian ? i made an atheist facebook page in my community which will probably cause me to lose money for my business. I’m sick of the religious have a negative effect on my life.

        • Sean Lee Walthour

          “i think that valuing rationality over everything else is just as bad as valuing faith over everything else”

          the craziest shit on this page yet lol

          pleas to accept irrational behavior never cease to never amaze me

    • Christine Loughead

      if you pray to an imaginary friend you are clearly crazy and it doesn’t make you a better human being just a weak one that follows the masses .

  • Rhek

    Vacuum seal him for later…

  • Gratz Brown

    Wise and Spiritual and Good:

    God, Christ Jesus, true Christians, the
    church of Christ (Romans 16), true religion, true worship that is not
    false and vain, the chosen few, good and necessary works commanded by
    God, before you got corrupted and confused by sin and lies and errors
    your birth from the womb which was created by God in God’s image,
    God’s goodness and mercy in spite of man’s foolishness and

    Foolish and Crazy and Bad:

    Satan the devil, the followers of the
    devil including his “angels” (imposters), false ministers wrongly
    regarded as “righteous,” false religions, every single sectarian
    denomination and cult, idiots who say all religion is bad when man’s
    Creator told him to have true religion (book of James), idiots who
    say religion is unnecessary when every person on earth either
    worships or serves something (Matthew 6:24) because mankind was
    created incurably worshipful, the word of the truth of the gospel of
    Christ (Colossians 1:5) which answers all questions of honest and
    good and obedient souls and calms all fears and restores hope in what
    is yet to come.

    • jewelbomb

      Is this supposed to make some kind of sense? What on earth are you going on about?

    • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

      That’ll do, pig. That’ll do.

    • http://www.facebook.com/mark.canter.94 Mark Canter

      Resorting to scriptural “truth”? Then consider this: in the Bhagavad Gita (which predates the gospels by at least 1000 years) Krishna says everyone already worships HIM, no matter who they think they are worshiping! So if you’re going to base your understanding of reality on some book written by human beings, I guess you’re always going to get trumped by someone else’s cult. All scriptures are written by mortals who drink and eat and piss and shit and die.

  • al_and_his_920

    Imagine what the world would be like if belonging to (or not belonging to) an organized religion or believing (or not believing) in a God and/or an afterlife were on a plane with which service club or cultural organization one joined (or did not join). We do not despise or hate someone because they belong to the Rotarian Club while members of our family elect to join the Lion’s Club (or simply do not belong to any service club). Nor do we feel any animosity towards those who keep their heritage alive by attending Robbie Burns Night in full Scots regalia, learn Gaelic in order to maintain the Welsh language, send their children to a community center to master Ukrainian dancing or sew and wear ethnic clothes.

    We do, however, watch entire nations go to war over ethnic differences that are in large measure based upon religious beliefs (and upon religious events that occurred in the far-distant past, in many cases multiple generations before any of the current protagonists were even born).

    If we could come to view our differences regarding gods, the afterlife and religious organizations as no more socially important than which, if any, sport one plays or follows we would eliminate virtually all of the major conflicts in today’s world.

    • Phil Armond

      Well said !

  • http://twitter.com/iamlittle1 iamLittleone

    I’m admitting it, religion is f***ing crazy. Thanks Chez Pazienza.

    • DocNordic

      Yep, just as ‘efing crazy as your non-religion stance.

      • buckwheet

        really? please explain….

        • Brendan Baker

          careful what you ask for there matey…. perhaps its just better he doesnt, give him half the chance and you will likely regret it…… Crikey, they’ve been trying desperatly to explain this nonsense for the last 2000 years …. enough is enough

          • tmf_x

            Upvoted not just for the comment, but for the use of “Crikey.”

      • Brendan Baker

        oh puleeeeeze…. go read your book

      • Deanna Szuter

        Please explain how not believing in religion is as crazy as believing in an invisible sky wizard who loves you, but will damn you for eternity if you don’t play by his rules and those rules seem to change over time, and have been twisted and reinterpreted over and over to suite whichever church or government power, spanning a couple thousand years. How is Me, not buying that “just as ‘efing crazy”? I’d really love to know.

        • Etienne Cloete

          Well spoken, Sir!!

        • Folwart

          It’s interesting how the narrative fluctuates over time and how people tend to cherry pick the aspects that suit them. If you’re cherry picking, it is proof that you are only defending your beliefs because you are afraid of altering your perception of reality from what you have been taught. Cognitive dissonance again. There is no shame in that.

          People want, maybe even need to be lied to. They lie to others, to themselves and they want everyone else to participate in their special version of reality. I’m not being condescending here nor am I claiming to be any different, though I strive to be.

          We’re all crazy to one degree or another. Personally I believe in seeking the truth, and there is a lot of evidence that suggests religion is to control, for stability, for guidance for those that need it, profit, etc. What I don’t understand is how people truly cannot see that most mainstream religions today worship the same God, but differ over text written by men who claim to have had contact with God and the differences vary to the degree of deviation, but have frequently lead to violent conflict. From my perspective it seems like a no brainer to go ones own way in this regard, but to each their own.

        • Runawaygeek

          you missed out that we need to be loved by the Bastard Zombie Son of the invisible Sky wizard ;-)

      • tmf_x

        How is not believing in a god living in the clouds crazy?

    • Ancient Veritas

      People call others with an unusual perception of reality crazy. I believe that lucid dreams are in the astral world. There are some people that can make themselves temporarily dead just by concentration and by practicing meditation. There is more to this place that meets the eye. That’s part of what String Theory is. The funny thing is most of this knowledge has been hidden from us for 1000’s of years. Life itself is a paradox. Consciousness created the universe.

      • Jake Houarse

        Um yeah, that’s not true. Nobody can make themselves temporarily dead. I’m sure you have read some super cool backwater book about it, but the fact is, if that were feasible and not just a clickbait headline you probably read psychology fields would be researching the SHIT out of it. If you can use mental science to stop your life (which in it of itself is very vague, are you just stopping your heart? giving yourself brain damage? turning your brain off? the first is accomplishable by just counting yourself as dead in between heartbeats and the third is just a seizure which I’m sure you can self induce) then you could use that for all sorts of therapy. Consciousness didn’t create the universe we believe we know what created the universe and that was the big bang. There is a very scientific explanation for lucid dreams yet you somehow are incorporating string theory into your conversation? Look. Things in this world are VERY black and white. Ghost stories have existing for millenia and pretty much everything you said is the modern day version. Science rules, bro.

        • Folwart

          You haven’t kept current, that much is obvious. Do some reading on recent discoveries in quantum mechanics.

          The big bang theory is a theory. If we “knew” it, then it wouldn’t be called a theory.

          Interestingly very little is black and white unless you let people tell you what to think.

          I’m not sure if you are very young and naive, still buying the load kids get fed in school, or if you’re an older sheep that can’t think for himself. Either way, keep your ignorant “beliefs” to yourself until you’ve started questioning everything you think you know and start seeking a greater and more meaningful truth. That is when one is ready to begin exchanging questions, ideas, and offering advice and criticism, not a moment before.

          • Robert Jones

            You clearly don’t even know what a theory means in the scientific realm. Unlike religion, a theory is the highest of all orders.. A theory will remain at this tier, no matter if the theory is proven wrong or not; as another theory will take it’s place.

          • Folwart

            Clearly, Robert. Clearly. The big bang theory is not supported by a lot of evidence, nor any particularly good evidence. It’s a decent theory though, it’s just not a proven fact. I can’t say it never will be.

            Nothing if substance was shared in your comment. I didn’t share anything that opposed what you shared. If there’s something specific I said that you don’t agree with or if you subconsciously decided you don’t like me and must oppose me that’s fine, but be specific or honest. Whichever applies.

          • Bob

            It’s easy to dismiss a theory by simply saying the evidence is poor. How about showing us how its poor?

          • Folwart

            I am responding to tmf_x in more detail here as well, Bob. I figured i would lump them together under your comnent since you posed the question.

            I can’t prove the big bang didn’t happen. I didn’t dismiss it. I simply said there isn’t any real convincing evidence. How could there be? It’s a theory and it’s going to stay the predominant theory until a better one is proposed, I realize this. Maybe the Gods did it.

            Say as a young child I supposed that people hatched from eggs because I saw a chicken hatch from an egg and I had never witnessed anything different. Then I saw a turtle hatch from an egg, and then a snake. Granted, it’s a silly scenario that wouldn’t last long, but it drives home my point.

            In your arrogance, tmf_x, you prance about with your self appointed superior intellect and condescension; yet I will attempt to do the impossible even though this bit on the big bang theory was just a piece of my point above, not the main idea. The impossible? Convince people that are already convinced by their superior stance based on stuff other people thought and wrote in books that are probably smarter than this schmuck (me) that maybe, just maybe I’m not wrong. Perhaps I’m more interested in the truth than evidence and ideas formed years ago.

            We are all children. We grow older, we physically mature; yet, many of us do not shake the childish tendencies. Or perhaps it is that we lose those tenedencies, because children seem to have a knack for seeing things so much more honestly and clearly. Our lifespans are insignificant in length against the vast stretches of the universe and we, the fools we are, presume that our first best guess is the answer, the truth? That is true arrogance. As a child, I’d have been wrong and I’d have found out soon enough. We are hurling through space at somewhere over 60k miles per hour, plus the speed of the solar system and the galaxy. Have you ever tried to measure something that wouldn’t stay still? It’s fucking annoying, and that’s something small that can be handled and pinned down if necessary. Is the uinverse expanding? Maybe, but against the vast stretch of time our puny little window of observation isn’t much to go on. We could be perceiving only a small piece of the picture. We don’t understand gravity very well yet, that’s a factor.

            The span of time of the universe is so utterly vast, supposedly, that we cannot even truly comprehend that length of time. Our lives are infinitely insignificant against it. I could have believed that notion of the origin of people for a year or so possibly, but then I’d be clued in. Until then that was my best guess. So shall it be for us and this big bang theory, if we don’t self destruct first. We are but children floundering about in a universe that was here long before us, and one that will be here long after.

            We do not know ourselves or our origins, to be truthful, let alone the universe. That’s the funny thing about digging up really old shit, you sort of just have to make some shit up and go with it until some other piece of solid evidence comes up. Humans from God, from Apes, from Mars or out there somewhere? No definite proof, best guess.

            Do you know what a theory is tmf-x? It’s our best guess based on the highest quality evidence that we have attained (not necessarily the best we can obtain). Science is constantly proven wrong because we discover better ideas. Some of you seem to have the wrong idea about science and theory, and this is coming from someone with a very curious, analytical and truth seeking mind, one that loves science.

            Theories are not truths, rather they are challenges to mankind to be proven or disproven through the gathering of evidence, deliberation on the quality of that evidence, analysis, formation of opposing theories; they are meant to be debated. The fact that theories are not facts is exactly the point. I don’t know where tmf_x got the notion that it is anything different, but he is decidedly incorrect in his assertion and a very self righteous little cretin for attempting to assert his superiority with such a condescending asinine statement.

            I’m trying to encourage that either young or dense individual up above, Jake, to open his mind a little and think outside of the confines of indoctrination. If we just believe what we’re told and what we read at face value without questioning anything, without thinking critically, then we are doing ourselves a disservice. Look at where it has gotten this country. Most people are like him, like you two. I refuse to be a part if the lies and fakery people use to shelter their fragile realities, egos and broken frames of reference. If you’re not seeking truth, you have no business attempting to debate anything, because you’re not actually debating anything. You’re just chest thumping and defending your beliefs from the sting of cognitive dissonance.

            My suggestion? Be open to new ideas, not too open though. Require reasonable amounts of evidence (which you should accrue yourself as well) before adopting new belief systems. Be wary of overly solidifying unsubstantiated beliefs, this increases the effects of cognitive dissonance because one is overly resistant to change of beliefs and new information. Be the sponge, firm, hold your shape, but absorb the knowledge. Don’t challenge someone intellectually with negative covert emotional shaming statements like tmf_x. The force is strong in this one, those emotional shaming manipulations have no effect.

            Is that satisfactory, Bob, or do you want sources and the whole nine yards? I do enjoy a challenge, thank you.

          • Emerald Gingell

            Oh boy. Pulling up my big girl panties here.
            I’m a physic major, specializing in particle physics. Hundreds of hours spent in actual classes. Let’s just say I have a LITTLE authority on the subject.
            A theory, in science, is the highest order of shit we have rigorously researched and feel extremely confident about. Gravity, for example, is a beautiful theory. Relativity is another beautiful theory. We have done extensive experiments that prove both of them exist… here. But hey, maybe somewhere out there, there’s a place in the universe where gravity or relativity doesn’t work the same. We don’t know, so we can’t say it’s a law. In fact, there are no laws in science. There are in math, so sometimes you may hear of Newton or Einstein laws, but those are useful mathematical tools we use to help us explain the theories they relate to.

            As for the big bang theory, there is a robust body of evidence supporting it. I invite you to investigate scientific journals to increase your knowledge. Plos one is free to the public and full of good stuff, for example.

          • Darth Folwart

            What is the point of science? Understanding, good. So we have a pretty good theory, does that mean we stop pursuing other ideas? Should we proceed with confirmation bias, dismissing evidence that is in opposition to the theory along the way?

            Are you aware of the pathetic state of peer review? They no more know the origins of the universe than they know the end of it. The Big Bang theory is just the favorite of the dogmatic faithful (f a i t h) science worshippers. Science isn’t meant to be dogmatic and belittling. Real science doesn’t pretend to have answers it does not. Real science doesn’t start with a contrived conclusion and work backwards to try to explain it, because when one wants a conclusion bad enough they’ll see whatever the hell tbey want to see. A theory is a theory, I know the definition. I also know that people on both sides of the issue misunderstand and misuse them. We want cold hard facts, straight answers, but on the topic of the origin of the universe we have none.

            I fear what sort of rubbish is being taught in the realm of the so called “higher education” these days. When I attended anything I learned was self taught, the instructors programs and tests were infantile. The misconception with degrees is that those whom possess them are intelligent because they possess them. We need simply look around us to behold that absurdity. For the intelligent that already know how to learn, aside from a select few degrees and most of the trade school options, it is an utter waste of money. Intelligence can’t be bought.

            I spend nearly every moment of my work learning, and then I pursue a wide array of subjects in my personal time. Unlike many college grads, I didn’t stop studying because school is out. I am a scholar, I enjoy it, I thrive in expanding my knowledge of both the internal and external worlds.

            So a theory has a robust amount of “people” supporting it. Sure, there is evidence that suggests the big bang is possible, if not probable in the eyes of some. New theories question whether the universe has a beginning at all. The curve that forms a circle has no beginning and no end. The concept is not unknown to us. The BB theory, like all theories, is but a place holder until either a better idea or a more popular belief takes its place.

          • Evgeni Krumov

            Hi Darth Folwart, I have to say that I read your comments with pleasure and the language used, the words.. I want to learn to express my thoughts in such way like you do. I guess I have to read much more books in English language, before I am able to do so. :)

            Thank you and continue commenting (by the way I cannot comprehend where do you find this energy and time dedicated to express and defend your ideas and comments).

            If you have any suggestions or advice for me I will be happy to take it.

          • Darth Folwart

            Thank you, that means a lot. Keep learning, keep reading and never be afraid to look up words you don’t know whenever they come up, that’s how I learned. English is my only language at this point, so I have a bit of an edge using it. I wish I had devoted time to learning a second language, I may at some point. It is fascinating, linguistics.

            My posts tend to become overly lengthy. Some individuals have insinuated that I waste my time, but I disagree. If I learn a new skill or hone one that I possess, then the time is not wasted. Everything I do has a purpose, and this is no exception. Debating aids in keeping my wit a bit sharper. I do need to scale back the amount of time I spend doing this though. My aim is to redirect that energy toward a blog.

            As for the time, I make the time. Instead of gaming or watching entertainment TV, I often choose to respond to some comments, read or watch something educational (how to do it yourself vids, etc. ).

            I have access to the net on my phone. If you do as well, then another tip is to use it as a dictionary and thesaurus. If not, use make a note to remind yourself to check it out on the PC. The thesaurus is an often overlooked tool. In English we have many words that have the same or similar meanings, the thesaurus helps to select the right word. Feel free to ask questions.

          • Robert Jones

            I suppose I was talking about how religious people usually don’t understand that a theory is at the top… Other than that, I’m sorry for the lack of explanation. Honestly I just saw this comment in my email and I guess this was a month or so ago…. and I wish I had more time to review this… haha I can’t even remember what happened last week…. I’ll try to get back to this sometime. I’m swamped with work. Have a good day.

          • Folwart

            I hear ya. I wish I could say the same. Work has slowed up here in ND. A theory may be the highest order, but they exist to be improved or disproven. Often there are multiple theories to explain that which we do not know. The big bang theory was drilled into our heads before we knew our asses from a hole in the ground. The nastolgic fond memory of the theory from a time when we believed everything we were told is essentially someone’s narrative or fantasy conjured out of imagination because the universe “appears” to be spreading outward. That’s a hell of an assumption.

          • Ancient Veritas

            Many scientists right now are debating between quantum theory and the big bang theory.Many more scientists are starting to side with the quantum theory by the day.CERN is a major reason why this is happening.The big bang theory is dying.”Unlike religion, a theory is the highest of all orders.. A theory will remain at this tier, no matter if the theory is proven wrong or not; as another theory will take it’s place.That statement is very hypocritical because if it is proven wrong then it should go in the trash.That’s putting faith in science.

          • tmf_x

            Oh how cute. “Its a theory not fact!”

            Sigh. Please read up on a scientific theory before you go spouting off

          • Folwart

            Ooo, a superiority complex topped off with shaming. “How cute”, Buttercup.

            Perhaps you should do a little reading yourself.

          • Folwart

            What’s truly amusing is that your response shows how ignorant you are on the very subject of which you are arguing my ignorance, which places it squarely in the manipulation category. What’s worse is four people agree. The feminine minded argue not in search of the truth, but merely for the sake of argument itself. As your statement clearly shows, having brought nothing of value to the argument.

          • John Kievlan

            The amusing part about your post is that everybody who knows anything at all just read it and thought, “This guy doesn’t have the faintest clue what science is.” I assure you that is the case.

            And even more amusingly, you wrote this post thinking, “I’m super scientific and junk! Ohr gosh these folks is gointa be so super gosh imprurdapressed with my super scientificashish stufferer I done said! Gorsh I’m amazering.”

      • John Kievlan

        Yes, only that’s not even a little bit what String Theory is. Like, not even in the slightest degree. It’s literally not one little bitty shred of anything that has anything to do with string theory. At all.

        But *you* think “that’s part of what String Theory is.” And you’re under the impression we *shouldn’t* think religion is crazy?

  • phoebefeline

    Why be so riled and expend so much energy; unless the absurd, really is a danger to ‘THE’ person or others. Respect the person does run over into respecting their beliefs. Respect and agreeing are two different things. We need to respect individuals and their beliefs; but not necessarily agree. AND…disagree respectfully I might add.

    • Lady Willpower

      So EVERY belief should be respected? Does that extend to things like Honor Killings? I’m having a hard time showing any respect to such a thing. What if someone believes a woman should carry a rapist’s child to term, should I respect their beliefs?
      I’ll answer for you. NO. Some beliefs don’t deserve our respect.

      • Steve

        Who’s to say your beliefs are the right though? That’s the one piece I fail to understand. You believe something, someone else believes something else, ad infinitum. Each person is a unique individual with their right to believe what they want. At what point does someone become the “chosen one” who can dictate the “true” right or wrong? What if that “chosen one” conflicts with your personal beliefs?

        • http://www.facebook.com/josh.olson.330 Josh Olson

          Steve – Flying over a cemetery in a plastic bag will not protect you from the impurities in a cemetery, because the impurities in a cemetery (such as they are) cannot reach you in an airplane that is flying above the cemetery. That’s not my BELIEF, Steve. That’s a fact. You do, of course, have the right to believe otherwise, but in that your belief flies in the face of obvious and verifiable fact, the rest of us get to point at you and go, “Ha ha ha! Look at the loon!”

          • Steve

            I was responding to Lady Willpower regarding her statement, not the one by the Rabbi. Thank you for enlightening me however. You’re so smart.

          • http://www.facebook.com/josh.olson.330 Josh Olson

            You’re welcome.

          • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

            I love the implication, sarcastic though it may be, that it takes being smart to point out that wrapping yourself in plastic won’t help protect you against cemetery cooties coming from 30,000 feet below you.

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            arent cemetaries EVERYWHERE? lol

          • http://twitter.com/bubblegenius Bubble Genius

            Personally, I think the man’s rebbe had been passing the bong around before the consultation. You’d think they would’ve already come up with a more aesthetically-pleasing way of containing one’s aura from contamination – perhaps a Paddington Bear raincoat combined with a gas mask?

            And anyway, how the fuck did this guy breathe? Did he have an oxygen tank in his plastic bag? Was he wearing Depends? And, if he used them, did he have an oxygen tank in his plastic bag?

            Do the cemetery cooties shoot directly up, kind of like the alien abduction beam in Fire In The Sky? Or is it more like a tornado? Did the rabbi calculate some sort of cootie spread? Is there a physicist in the house?

            And really, couldn’t he have just asked the stewardess to tell him when they’d be passing over the cemetery? Then, he could’ve just gone to the bathroom with his plastic bag, pulled it over his head for the duration (which I imagine would’ve been ONE SECOND, he’s in a fucking PLANE) and gone back his chair like a seemingly normal human being, which it’s already been established he isn’t, because A) he actually did the legwork to see if the flight path went over a cemetery; and B) upon having this knowledge, he went to someone to ask what he should do. Oh wait, I forgot C) he actually KNEW that flying over a cemetery is BAD.

        • http://twitter.com/bubblegenius Bubble Genius

          So, Steve, are you saying that all beliefs should be respected equally? And what’s YOUR definition of “insane” as long as you’re asking everyone else?

          • Steve

            Theoretically I don’t think one can honestly define “insane” outside of some standard defined outside of ourselves/humans. In other words, some eternal being/creator creates a standards whereby we can use as a yard stick.

            Any other definition is ultimately relative.

            I’d say the next best approach is to base it on societal norms, and the majority, which I think can work in most cases.

            However, when doing so, we have to make sure to realize the boundary, and that other societies, which may be largely defined by a religion, may have a different definition. In some cases, fairly drastic.

          • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

            “You can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg, isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!”

          • Steve

            Not sure I completely understand the point of the quote…

            I read it more as an individual should not be seen as a representative sample of the larger collective group they are a part of, whatever level that may be.

          • http://www.facebook.com/mario.a.velarde Mario A Velarde

            Animal House quotes, at least to my beliefs, usually trump any and all arguments.

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            more religious poppycock…. u wanna use words but ignore their definition… i guss ur really not STEVE since its a creation of man too. smh, it never ends

        • Lady Willpower

          Each person is unique, and some of those unique people are idiots. Therefore I don’t respect them. Respect has to be earned.

        • Sean Lee Walthour

          when arguing with us atheists, yall need to realize something. YOU are the one with a belief, we are simply at default, meaning we dont believe. im well within my rights to reject your beliefs sice u cannot prove them… my lack of belief is not itself a belief

    • jewelbomb

      Why do we need to respect whatever crazy beliefs people have? I know that it’s something that’s easy to say and that sounds good on (digital?) paper, but what is too be gained by treating beliefs that are clearly insane as if they are not? Sorry, but if a person believes the world is flat, I’m not going to respect their beliefs because their beliefs aren’t worthy of respect.

      • Steve

        In your opinion, how would you describe “insane” or “crazy”?

        • http://twitter.com/bubblegenius Bubble Genius

          I’m not sure about defining “insane” or “crazy,” but I believe the definition of “pedantic shit-stirrer” is you, Steve.

          • Steve

            Excellent point. Thanks for your input.

        • villemar

          Well, asking over and over again how you define crazy is kinda crazy.

        • jewelbomb

          I would describe dressing oneself in a plastic bag in order to stay away from girl germs as insane, wouldn’t you?

          • Steve

            No doubt. I’m simply asking what your definition is.

            I responded with mine in the previous post.

        • Fabius_Maximus

          “Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is? Insanity is doing the exact… same fucking thing… over and over again expecting… shit to change… That. Is. Crazy. The first time somebody told me that, I dunno, I thought they were bullshitting me, so, I shot him. The thing is… He was right. And then I started seeing, everywhere I looked, everywhere I looked all these fucking pricks, everywhere I looked, doing the exact same fucking thing… over and over and over and over again thinking ‘this time is gonna be different’ no, no, no please… This time is gonna be different, I’m sorry, I don’t like… The way…


          The thing is… Alright, the thing is I killed you once already… and it’s not like I am fucking crazy. It’s okay… It’s like water under the bridge…

          Did I ever tell you the definition… of insanity?”

        • Sean Lee Walthour

          i define it as STEVE

    • Sean Lee Walthour

      no it doesnt, i need not respect a belief because i respect the person. Please produce a sound reason why i should…

      • Sircattitude

        My pic showed up but my written words did not…ain’t going through trying to remember all I said-SHEESH So much easier to just speak to a person right in front of you. If I can gather my thoughts after my brain rests; I will try to reply to you Sean Lee Walthour. Got a nice ring to your name. I am old-fashioned; not necessarily old–just get easily discombuberated with this internet (computer) stuff. My forte is ‘reality-‘ in my face. Anything coming out of our mouth will wound or heal. Respect is the kind even tone; where a person comes away from a conversation feeling good, important, valued. Disrespect is put downs, one upmanship etc.; a person coming away from a conversation feeling bad, sad, angry, worthless etc. So I summarize; WE SHOULD always approach a person/conversation with kindness, and that is respect. Approach a person/conversation from the 180% side and it is disrespectful. just my Opinion; not basing it on any study done etc, WELL…God’s way. Pics are just pretty-no special meaning.

        • Sircattitude

          So now where are the pics. I got the written word this time. But no pics. Is it okay to admit I am very confused; possibly ‘dumb.’ lol

    • Sean Lee Walthour

      i respect barack obama as a man and our president, however, i have absolutely no respect for his belief system

  • http://www.facebook.com/randy.negvesky Randy Negvesky

    Ya kinda lame but it is freedom of religious expression. Its called the “Bill of Rights” not the”Bill of Necessity”. As long as they are not hurting anyone than it is and should be a protected right. Rosa Parks didn’t “need” to sit in the front of the bus. She had a “right” to

    • JozefAL

      And people who don’t know the first thing about what happened with Rosa Parks need to not bring up her situation as though there’s any equivalency.

      Here’s what happened with Ms Parks:

      Rosa Parks got on a Montgomery bus, and proceeded to sit down IN THE ASSIGNED COLORED SECTION. Since she was tired, she sat down in the first available row in the section.

      Now, here’s where the problem begins: The bus came to a new stop, and a white passenger boarded the bus. The whole reserved “white” section was full. As was standard operating procedure, when a white passenger boarded and there were no available seats for the white person, the “colored” section became, well, less reserved. Ms Parks was asked to move from her seat–and row. (Part of the segregationist mentality was that black and white passengers couldn’t share the same row.) The problem was that, at this point, the “colored” section that would be left after the white passenger took his seat (and row) would be completely full and Ms Parks would have nowhere to sit. Well, Ms Parks was tired from working all day, and refused to give up her seat.

      But, at NO point, was the issue that Ms Parks had a “right” to the “front of the bus” (and quite technically, not really–the bus was actually owned by a private company though it operated as a form of public transportation, not too dissimilar to that Jewish bus line in New York City that got so much attention last year for ITS gender segregation policy).
      Now, as to the whole “freedom of religious expression,” do you feel that practitioners of Santeria and Voodoo should be allowed to sacrifice animals which sort of flaunts any number of laws prohibiting animal cruelty? The Bill of Rights is NOT absolute. (It’s an oldie but, just try claiming “freedom of speech” after you’ve been arrested for falsely yelling “Fire!” in a crowded theater. The judge will probably appreciate the joke just before he passes the sentence.)

    • jewelbomb

      The same Bill of Rights that provides these freaks with their freedom of religion provides us with the freedom to mock said crazy beliefs. Is there something in the Constitution that says their rights to religious freedom trumps our rights to point and laugh?

  • NotParticularlyReligiousPerson

    It astounds me how people are so consumed with narrow-mindedness that anything out of the ordinary creeps them out to the extent that they have to write a long, abusive article, while conveniently incorporating their dislike for ‘religious stupidity’.
    People do ‘stupid’ things because it doesn’t seem stupid to them, or because they’re trying to make a point.

    Clearly, they succeeded.

    Live and let live, and I suggest you don’t embarass yourself with adoloscent rants that mix fear of the unusual with such mature topics as religious idiosyncrasies.
    People don’t respect beliefs because it comes under their idea of sane.
    They respect beliefs because they’re beliefs, and beliefs make people happy and secure. World peace is propogated by respect for beliefs, however bizarre they seem to you and me.
    If you were the mature writer you pretend to be, you’d respect the
    guy talking to the telephone pole and you’d respect the guy dressed in
    whatever, sitting in a plastic bag for whatever reason. As long as he’s not hurting anyone, what is your point?

    You don’t need to believe yourself, but that doesn’t mean you don’t respect the belief itself.

    Got the difference?

    So here. Take this lollipop, and go cry to your mommy about the big, bad, scary world.

    • SexBobOmb

      Given that you couldn’t show the author of this piece any respect and resorted to name calling, I’d say you’ve got a problem with consistency.

      • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

        Trust me, I didn’t take it personally. The first rule of condescension is that you can’t do it if you’re a dipshit.

    • http://www.facebook.com/clintlien Clint Lien

      When beliefs inspire people to throw acid in the faces of little girls, fly planes into buildings, curb stem cell research, teach creationism as a science, etc, etc X infinite, then it’s time the rest of us stood up and said “There’s too much crazy going around.” We need more reason and a lot less faith.

      • Steve

        Reason tells me that if there is no god, then all life is a cosmic accident, and I am free to make my own rules. If I want to do those things you mention, then so be it. Am I wrong?

        Please explain your superiority.

        • http://www.facebook.com/clintlien Clint Lien

          I explained it in my post. It’s not people of reason doing those things – it’s people of faith.

        • Sean Lee Walthour

          thats because you clearly have a distorted sense of reasoning. GOOD people do good because its the good thing to do, BAD people only do good when they expect that its something in it for them….. that is the superiority between the two positions

  • hidflect

    We assume it’s just women he’s “hiding” from. But religion is also a perfect cover for rabid racism. A casual glance through the Talmud will confirm that for anyone skeptical of this argument. e.g.

    The non-Jews have to be avoided even more than sick-pigs
    -Orach Chalim 57 6a

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bish-Chan/100001872282834 Bish Chan

    So in the days before plastic how would a Rabbi have coped? Did God intend for man to fly? If not, why is he in a plane?

    • Christine Loughead

      maybe the rabbi thinks god doesn’t want women to fly

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1704020986 Jack Weber

    Let’s use some critical thinking here. First, unless you have an air hole, how do you breathe enveloped in saran wrap bag (the linked article says it is a bag)? You don’t. So, that is story-breaker number one. Now let’s look at a further distortion of logic and common sense.

    Here are two phrases from the article.

    “Speculation is that the self-Saran Wrapping was done…”

    “presumably to avoid touching women…”

    The author is concerned about reality, yet he does not have a firm grasp on why the man is actually wrapped in saran wrap to begin with. Author goes with the religious bait instead of more reasonable common sense. It is unlikely it to keep separate from women, or else I imagine he would spend his life outside his home wrapped the same way, which is impossible. The entire article is written based on speculation, which to me, given its conclusions and comments, indicts the author as more “crazy” than the rabbi.

    Critical thinking deductive reasoning:

    1) We don’t know why he is doing it.

    2) That makes the article essentially….speculation.

    3) If he were not religious, maybe it would be speculated that he were doing it for…..say…..health reasons. So, maybe that is why he is doing it.

    4) If he were religious, which the report is sure of, maybe he is doing it for…..say……health reasons.

    5) Regardless of why, let him do it. Some people do (seemingly) crazier, legal things that don’t hurt others except to make them uncomfortable with something extraordinary.

    6) Ironically, the article begins with a speculation, which makes the rest of it, essentially a speculative rant, maybe just as crazy as the author judges the rabbi to be.

    Why doesn’t the author speculate the more likely: the rabbi does not want to be exposed to germs.

    Okay, that was fun, for something that is likely a hoax, cuz you can’t breath covered in a saran wrap bag from head to toe. If it’s not a hoax, begin thinking at #1 above.

    My conclusion: the author has a beef with religion and out of the ordinary things (which in this case does not seem to bother anyone) and wrote a sloppy, arrogant article.

    This article says less about religion than it does there are less than astute columnists embarrassing themselves and creating more religious warfare based on their own animosity. My invitation: make an apology, Mr. Pazienzia and be more careful about your apparent projections.

    • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

      Well, those certainly were a lot of words.

      • Lady Willpower

        A LOT of words. Some with multiple syllables.

        • http://www.facebook.com/james.pekoll James Pekoll

          And only a few syntax errors. Way to go!

    • http://www.facebook.com/mark.canter.94 Mark Canter

      So, because the bag surely has a breathing hole or holes in it, the rabbi is certainly NOT crazy? What an utterly goofy attempt at deflection from the points the article makes. And your points are supposed to represent CRITICAL THINKING?

    • http://www.facebook.com/josh.olson.330 Josh Olson

      Jack – Here’s the man’s rabbi, in his own words, explaining what the man was doing: “Before Passover he flew to Israel, and because of a change in the flight he found out that he would be flying over a cemetery. He consulted a rabbi, who ruled that although the plane was a closed place, there was impurity over the cemetery and in order to deal with it – he must reach a situation of a ‘container with a lid fastened on it.'”

      No supposition. No speculation. The man is wrapped in plastic because he’s flying over a cemetery. AKA: Batshit fucking crazy.

      You’re welcome.

      • America’s New Path

        You know…it actually sounded LESS crazy when it was to avoid women.

  • Anon

    I sincerely hope your update was sarcastic.

  • Clear_the_way

    It’s obvious, how can this person inside the bag tie the knot on the outside of the bag as seen in the photo? He did not do this himself as the caption states.

    • Brandon Binczak

      He tied a knot in a tarp, turning it into a bag, and then pulled it over his head? Not that hard to figure out really

  • joseph2004

    Sounds like you’re ranting against political correctness gone amok! Nice plug for the normalizing affects of the court of public opinion, too, by the way.

    • http://twitter.com/4lex78 Alex Catarino

      I think that you are somehow distorting his “rant”, because political correctness is mostly used to not offend someone by its innate characteristic. However, I would agree that political correctness has gone amok when it starts to be applied to ideas/opinions too.

      • Mycos

        The accusation of being motivated by PC has become a standard tool used by right-wing conservatives to deflect and diminish those who don;t agree with their assertions that Zimmerman acted in self-defense, ditto that Ferguson puke cop, or their defense of the Garner GJ refusal to hold those thugs accountable. They accuse us of not taking their position out of PC…our fear we might offend blacks..which they also assert is an overriding concern of liberal Americans because – how could anyone rationally support giving money to welfare queens, gangsters, and violent anti-white negroes who have been looking to “pay back Whitey!” since the Reconstruction period?’

        Oh yeah! Standard operating procedure for conservatives. ddI spend a great deal of time observing RWA-SDO (Altemeyer-Prato respectively) behavior as its expressed on the web as part of my now decade+ study of a phenomenon in American society that has attracted a great many social psychologist to do similar work looking into the causes of an observed slide among self-described conservatives away from a reasoned ideological position toward an increasingly irrational position that is strongly deferential toward persons they perceive as sharing their beliefs and values but are instead motivated by self-interest only…often blatantly so to everyone else yet for whatever reason remained strangely invisible to social conservatives in particular. (The “Authoritarian Leader-Follower Embrace” as social scientists & historians sometimes refer to what is a historically repeating pattern often appearing just prior to a period of massive social upheaval and bloodshed eg the deference and acquiescence of that sector of German society to Hitler with loyalty remaining long after his bloodlust was exposed because he claimed to be doing so to rid society of the menace presented by German liberalism, pro-democracy advocates, and socialists…factors that have been largely sidelined by the acute focus on his anti-semitic beliefs almost to the exclusion of other groups who also suffered grave attacks during the period.

    • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

      No, actually, I am saying that religion is crazy — which I figured was pretty self-evident given the title of the piece, but then there’s no accounting for someone’s willingness to see only what confirms his personal political slant. Our tolerance of religious beliefs, no matter how crazy, goes well beyond simple political correctness run amok and your take on my little “rant” stops there only if you’ve got much more of a problem with the traditionally liberal concept of political correctness than you do with the traditionally conservative belief that religion — particularly a select few — needs to be defended at all costs.

      • Steve

        Please define “crazy”?

        • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

          What’s say we stick with the traditional definition.

          • Steve

            Which is?

          • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

            Sorry, I’m not in the mood to split hairs.

          • Steve

            I’m just curious in a general sense as I cannot accurately define it myself. Not trying to split hairs.

            Is crazy defined by the majority?
            Is crazy defined by the particular society?
            Is crazy defined by some eternal being/god/whatever?
            Is crazy defined individually?
            Is crazy defined by the government?

          • America’s New Path

            Unlike Chez, I love splitting hairs so how about this: “Crazy is the irrational and total belief in a reality which is unsupported by verifiable facts.”

            And yes, this definition works in science too. So, for instance, if you have a paleontologist who believes that a picarosaurus (not a real dinosaur) only ate grass, and does so in clear disregard of hundreds of picarosaurus teeth fossils clearly designed to tear and eat meat, then that person is crazy…or delusional at the very least.

            Of course, if he believes that picarosaurus only ate grass because picarosaurus, like all other dinosaurs, lived in the garden of Eden…then that person is an evangelical.

        • hutzpappy

          look in the mirror, steve.

      • joseph2004

        I guess I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were a little more nuanced in opinion than to really believe (and state), in overly broad terms, that religion is crazy. Some people think that if it went away tomorrow, the world would be “saved.” I used to approach religion the same way, especially as a science major who saw a lot of people around me denying evolution unconditionally and making all sorts of nonsensical attempts at defending their beliefs on that and other related subjects.
        But, about a month ago, at a memorial service, I (someone who has avoided “church” like the plague) was reminded – again – that sanity backed by faith can be a powerful force to do good.
        So, yeah, there’s a lot of craziness when it comes to religion and many who practice it, but leave the broad brush approach to the narrow-minded.

        • http://twitter.com/chezpazienza Chez Pazienza

          No one said faith doesn’t do good. The same way it’s been — and continues to be — a force for some of the most heinous acts humanity has ever seen, it’s also been responsible for some of the most valiant. But the effect of religion is irrelevant to the argument I’m making. The belief itself is still irrational and while it may indeed get you through the day, that doesn’t prove the belief itself. Kids believe in Santa Claus and it can occasionally keep them from doing bad things — doesn’t make Santa exist.

          • Steve

            Lets not confuse a religion with the acts carried out by certain “members” acting outside of the beliefs.

            If I have my faith in you, but act in a way that you have not approved, then should you be blamed?

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            there are plenty EVIL acts carried out that are INSIDE of the beliefs, what say ye to that?

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            excellent layup!

      • Jackie Port McCauley

        This article was full of relativistic examples. Your intolerance for others who peacefully practice their nuttiness is surprising. A homeless person covered in plastic in the park would hopefully be seen with kindness and understanding. Same goes for a rabbi on a plane. Why be nasty and call names? Are you 5 years old? The world is a diverse place. True maturity and wisdom comes from embracing that. But not allowing women the right to dress freely is not equivalent to a self imposed fetish with plastic fashion, and your argument is cheapened by your inability to distinguish between that which causes harm and that which doesn’t.

  • Lady Willpower

    Cue the right wing response:

    “But Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot were ATHEISTS! Atheists are the real crazies!!”

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=822830136 Osama Akhtar

      As well as Hitler. It’s a fact-based response, not a right-wing response. Atheists are the biggest terrorists.

      • Lady Willpower

        You are either insane or stupid, or both.

        • Sean Lee Walthour

          he’s religious, im thinking, BOTH

      • http://twitter.com/BonT_00 Bonta-kun

        Hold on. Tiiiiiiiime the fuck Out.

        Hitler was raised Catholic. He advocated “Positive Christianity” prior to WW2. There are numerous religious statements in Mein Kampf.

        • hidflect

          Hitler used to joke that despite being the Fuhrer he still had to pay his tithes to the RC Church. And to be a in the upper echelon of the Nazi party, a good Catholic was always a step ahead of the rest.

      • merl1

        If that’s the case why did he mandate school prayer?

      • Sean Lee Walthour

        she was being sarcastic lol… hitler wasnt atheist smh

        • Bonta-kun

          Yeah, because sarcasm comes over real well in Arial.

          • Sean Lee Walthour

            so if im bein sarcastic and the reader cant tell, does that mean they just cant tell, or does it mean i wasnt being sarcastic?

          • Bonta-kun

            Nah. Just not sarcastic *enough*.

          • Rabbit7890

            Needs more italics.

      • barry waterfield

        Oh rubbish

      • Map-DORK

        Hitler was catholic , you fucking moron!

      • Sean Lee Walthour

        and HOW are atheists, “terrorists” ?

      • Mycos

        Oh Bull! The right-wing German Catholic Church within Germany has busily been denying their many collaborative efforts with Nazism formed during that period, not to mention their invaluable assistence in getting Nazis out of the country once military defeat was certain. They’ve been denying, excusing and downplaying what are established records and uncontested chronologies of events during the Nazi years set down by non-controversial., highly authoritative historians of the period, just as the Spanish Catholic Church was also fully on board with Franco’s Falangists, (fascists), urging the destruction of the Republican government, a young democratically elected and popularly supported government – one that could only find help from left-wing socialists and even some arms from the USSR due the “non-interventionist” policy decided on by England, France and America, observed by only those governments while those of Mussolini and Hitler threw wholehearted support behind Franco and the Churches efforts to extinguish the armies of working class Spain, and what support could be had from volunteer militias like the most noble and valiant fighting force of the entire fascist period,(including WW2) the highly laudable “Lincoln Brigades” ….American patriots who knew bullshit when they saw it the form of US petrol filling the fuel tanks of Goering’s Condor Legions as the pulverized cities like Guernica (the inspiration for the giant mural by Picasso that looms over the Great Hall of the General Assembly at the New York UN building.
        Hey….” Dominion Theology “, long the status quo and stated position of the Catholic Church, means precisely that. Theocracy through (political, military, financial…etc) domination.

      • ceakin

        You don’t believe in unicorns. Does that mean your lack of belief in unicorns is what drives your actions?

      • John Kievlan

        Actually atheists are virtually never terrorists. I’m sorry, I know it’s rude to bring actual facts into a non-fact-based discussion. My parents never taught me manners.

    • Mycos

      Or the ever-present “atheism is a religious belief itself!”

      • http://batman-news.com/ Liberal_Garbage

        The concept of 0 or null. Originally discovered in the east. Numbers used to not contain 0. Atheism is the 0 belief, but it is still a belief in and of itself. Thus it is still a religion.

        • David Ward



          • http://batman-news.com/ Liberal_Garbage

            I’m sorry that’s incorrect. You lose your wager and we move onto the next category.

        • Jerry

          It’s a belief, but it isn’t a religion. The two aren’t the same. You should look up the definition of a religion. Atheism doesn’t involve common tenets or ceremonies. It is not a religion. It is a belief in the absence of gods.

    • Ddgdc

      The nazi party actually wanted to oust religion altogether until they realised what the “German Protestant” sect was doing with it. They began independently claiming Jesus’ job prior to his crucifixion was to eradicate Jewish influence from earth. Hitler was viewed as the second-coming. I should think he liked this a lot and tried to encourage it.
      I like to believe that no one who is prepared to kill for a religious cause is in fact religious. Gods on all accounts forbid this, regardless of which old wars were fought.
      Extremism is in fact a twisted alteration of an otherwise powerful and benevolent code of conduct which encourages empathy and love.

      • Mark

        Guess you’ve never read the Old Testament

        • Ddgdc

          and I suppose of you read it literally you would be at the same level of those who still think humans roamed the earth with dinosaurs and evolution is the stuff of legends..

      • John Kievlan

        Ddgdc: I encourage you to take a close look at your ideas about how God told you to not kill people. Have you thought about this at all? Have you considered the fact that in order to believe God’s command to not kill people is worth following, you must *first* have come to *your own* conclusion that God himself is worth following, which you must have determined on your own without God’s help?

    • Jim Mason

      I’m a “conservative” atheist. Just saying. There are more of us than you’d think. Bunching certain opinions into the “religious crazy” camp does an injustice to civil discourse.

      For instance, religion is not the only reason to detest abortion. As a matter of fact, there are two reasons outside of religion to detest it.

      One is science, and the fact (yes fact) that at a certain point in a pregnancy a fetus is a baby, and that abortion beyond that point is little different than strangling a baby in an incubator. Well much different actually, because abortion involves a much more brutal way of killing than strangulation.

      Second is basic personal responsibility. A woman who has an abortion in the first trimester when she made a stupid mistake doesn’t bother me. A woman who, after having an abortion in the first trimester when she made a stupid mistake, goes on to have two or three more abortions because she decides abortion is a good form of birth control DOES bother me. In my opinion, it should bother everyone.

      Now I can’t force that opinion on you. I have no intention to try. However I sure as shit also don’t intend to just pretend it’s OK. It’s not. It is one of the most irresponsible, selfish acts I can think of and allowing the cowards that partake in such forms of “birth control” to hide behind the feminist movement is pathetic.

      • Lady Willpower

        ” A woman who, after having an abortion in the first trimester when she made a stupid mistake, goes on to have two or three more abortions because she decides abortion is a good form of birth control DOES bother me.”

        This is not something that woman actually do. Getting an abortion is a HORRIBLE experience. I don’t care how callous a woman might be, how indifferent to the suffering of the fetus, the abortion process itself is extremely unpleasant. This idea that women would rather get the occasional abortion than take birth control is a complete right-wing fairytale.

        • Jim Mason

          A right wing fairy tale that I have seen with my own eyes. Right.

          Because you don’t want to believe it to be true doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Again, I’m not sure what you take issue with me on here. I said in the preceding sentence that if the person wasn’t using it as a form of birth control, and got the abortion early in the pregnancy, I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH IT.

          I take issue with abortion being made out to be a good thing when it should be, in all cases, something an individual strives to avoid. If it happens, it happens, but you sitting here telling me that women who have multiple abortions are “right wing fairy tales” is disgusting. What world do you live in.

          • Lady Willpower

            I didn’t say it NEVER happens. I’m sure it’s happened before. I take issue with this idea that there are tons of women who blithely get abortions all the time. It’s just not that much fun, trust me.

        • Jim Mason

          Myth 9: Women have multiple abortions rather than using birth control.

          Fact: Most women who have abortions (52 percent) have had no previous abortions, and 26 percent have had only one previous abortion. Considering that most women are fertile for more than 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

          This is from a pro-abortion site. What is shows is that 48% of women who have abortions have had more than one, and 22% have had more than two.

          22% have had three or more abortions. 48% more than one. The bell curves slope ain’t so steep.

          Again, this is from an article that is trying to help “debunk” abortion myths.


          • Lady Willpower

            No one is “pro-abortion.” No one “digs” abortion. Pro-choice is NOT “pro-abortion.” It just isn’t. You’re regurgitating more right-wing fallacies.

      • Christopher Foxx

        A woman who, after having an abortion in the first trimester when she made a stupid mistake, goes on to have two or three more abortions because she decides abortion is a good form of birth control DOES bother me. In my opinion, it should bother everyone.

        It would bother me to. If it were happening.

        OK, I suppose SOMEwhere there is a woman who continues to be irresponsible and has had multiple abortions. You can usually find an example, or even a few examples, of anything. But to suggest that/those end-of-the-bell-curve cases are some kind of common occurrence, that they’re what should be central to any rational discussion or put forth as the basis for setting a policy or for, well, anything is similarly irresponsible.

        • Jim Mason

          Do you actually know the number of women who have had abortions more than once, and what their percentage of the whole is?

          • Lady Willpower

            I have had more than one abortion. I can assure you it was never a decision taken lightly. It was never fun. It was never something me and my girlfriends just got together and did for kicks.
            I did it because I didn’t want to carry my rapists’ babies to term. That is something you can never fully understand.
            Women who get abortions aren’t enjoying themselves, and they’re not doing it because they’re just too lazy to get on the Pill.

          • Jim Mason

            Lady WILLPOWER – Irony?

          • Lady Willpower

            Wow. So if I had just had a little more character I wouldn’t have been raped in the first place? Is that what you’re saying?

        • Jim Mason

          Myth 9: Women have multiple abortions rather than using birth control.

          Fact: Most women who have abortions (52 percent) have had no previous abortions, and 26 percent have had only one previous abortion. Considering that most women are fertile for more than 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

          This is from a pro-abortion site. What is shows is that 48% of women who have abortions have had more than one, and 22% have had more than two.

          22% have had three or more abortions. 48% more than one. The bell curves slope ain’t so steep.

          Again, this is from an article that is trying to help “debunk” abortion myths.



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